AP Is Not In The Top 3 Anymore For Many WIS

[DK3]

I was speaking with a group of WIS friends and we all agreed that AP is not in the top 3 watch brands anymore. The fact they need to constantly try to attach endorsements of celebrities to each special edition, the fact that they need to call their watches like the grand prix special edition when it is nearly 10% of their annual production, and the fact they need to reduce prices indicates that the brand is no longer one of the great brand names. They have become desperate to sell a watch and it is only getting worse.

They are not in the same league of Vacheron or Patek. For example, it is hard to find any Patek watches when you visit dealers and they have twice the annual production. Vacheron has sold out their annual production at the first few days of the SIHH show the past couple of years.

AP is nowhere in their league of Patek or Vacheron. Although they have complicated watches any brand can hire an independent watch brand to make a grand complication or a tourbillion.

AP under years of bad management, snobby attitudes, marketing gimmicks, and poor service has become undesirable by many WIS. Check out watch forums the past year many people have felt AP is no longer the brand name it used to be.

It seemed that AP is attracting many people that only want the royal oak shape as a status symbol like those that want a shinny rolex as an attempt to show status. It appeared to our small group of WIS that many serious collectors have given up on AP and unfortunately feel like they are in the same level of Hublot now days.

Anyone should by any watch that makes them happy, but AP will not hold any value and is doubtful you will every see AP selling at any auction houses in the future. They have become a fashion brand and are no longer one of the brands (please do not confuse BRAND with the WATCH). For example, rolex makes great watches but is not considered in the top 3 brands. AP has nice watches but so does everyone. The brand name is what investors and collectors consider placing a watch in the top three and AP does not have it anymore. It seems it is now only Patek and Vacheron.

Lastly, if you have an AP watch and love your watch that is great. AP watches are great watches despite their brand name not being what it used to be. I am certain that I will never buy an AP watch again and many WIS feel the same way.

Anyways, this post is not meant to offend anyone personally so please take it as just thoughts by a group of WIS getting a chance to reflect about the watch industry. It is nothing more than an opinion and it is OK if you disagree. If you love your AP watch nothing changes that so enjoy it.

[S``]

Maybe not for THAT group... For THIS group.... it's in the top 3 and has always been in the top 3

[thomaspp]

Originally Posted by DK3

. If you love your AP watch nothing changes that so enjoy it.

Disagree with your statements, but find some common ground in the above. AP continues to produce IMHO some of the most appealing timepieces in the market with which I believe demand will stay strong for the brand.

[kilyung]

Originally Posted by DK3

... It is nothing more than an opinion and it is OK if you disagree.

I think you and your small group are wrong.

[Greg G]

Originally Posted by DK3

Anyways, this post is not meant to offend anyone personally so please take it as just thoughts by a group of WIS getting a chance to reflect about the watch industry. It is nothing more than an opinion and it is OK if you disagree.

I like my "shinny" Rolex.

[orangedial]

What's the criteria of defining 'Top 3'? And by what and whose standards?

[DK3]

Just a question for those that disagree:

1. What does a need for AP to buy back watch inventory from retailers and price drops mean to you?

2. Why do you never see AP selling at auction houses?

3. Why do you lose so much value they minute you purchase an AP?

4. Why do limited edition pieces rarely go up in value, aren' they special?

5. Why do they make limited edition production piece of greater than 1000 pieces when their annual production is 25,000?

6. Why do they constantly need to make countless limited edition celebrity watches?

7. Why do they need to change leadership and corporate structure so dramatically the past few years?

8. Are these the actions of a top 3 watch brand?

[mspeed76]

opinions.. everyones got one. i find your post offensve

[lig]

I really don't care if anyone doesn't feel that AP belongs in some mythical "top 3"

Wear what you like.

[thomaspp]

Originally Posted by DK3

Just a question for those that disagree:

1. What does a need for AP to buy back watch inventory from retailers and price drops mean to you?

2. Why do you never see AP selling at auction houses?

3. Why do you lose so much value they minute you purchase an AP?

4. Why do limited edition pieces rarely go up in value, aren' they special?

5. Why do they make limited edition production piece of greater than 1000 pieces when their annual production is 25,000?

6. Why do they constantly need to make countless limited edition celebrity watches?

7. Why do they need to change leadership and corporate structure so dramatically the past few years?

8. Are these the actions of a top 3 watch brand?

Here's my response!

[h999r]

I don't care if AP not in the top 3 or top 10. I'm buying it because suit my style and having so much pleasure of wearing it. Yes I'm still buying it as long as it looks good on me.
Like I will buy RM watch, and not sure RM is in the top 10 or not, because I don't really care.

[kilyung]

Originally Posted by DK3

Just a question for those that disagree:

1. What does a need for AP to buy back watch inventory from retailers and price drops mean to you?

2. Why do you never see AP selling at auction houses?

3. Why do you lose so much value they minute you purchase an AP?

4. Why do limited edition pieces rarely go up in value, aren' they special?

5. Why do they make limited edition production piece of greater than 1000 pieces when their annual production is 25,000?

6. Why do they constantly need to make countless limited edition celebrity watches?

7. Why do they need to change leadership and corporate structure so dramatically the past few years?

8. Are these the actions of a top 3 watch brand?

Who cares? What's important is that you like it. If someone classes AP in the top 3 is irrelevant to their enjoyment of the brand.

[benlee]

Hmm.... How can Vacheron be sold out already their entire annual production when they are available for purchase at their boutique? I just visited their boutique in Singapore yesterday. Also PP watches are available, not that hard to find. Maybe the most popular PPs are limited in stock. In fact, its AP that is really hard to find. I have to hunt high and low for my 154000 and I think I just bought the last piece in my country. Good luck trying to find a ready stock Offshore Diver.

[newbieincali]

Rm sure is in he top 10 with prices. Lol


In regards to the original post I do not see much about the watches themselves .... more questions about things such as corporate red tape and issues that never speak about the watch itself... It's the watch itself in my opinion that I care about.

[wisguy]

Owned two AP's in the past, own two shinny rolexes at the time...

Will not argue much, I like Vacheron, but they don't seem to hold their value either, other than Patek and Rolex nothing does.

You can make up any criteria you want to arrive at the desired result, to each their own.

[orangedial]

Originally Posted by DK3

Just a question for those that disagree:

1. What does a need for AP to buy back watch inventory from retailers and price drops mean to you?

2. Why do you never see AP selling at auction houses?

3. Why do you lose so much value they minute you purchase an AP?

4. Why do limited edition pieces rarely go up in value, aren' they special?

5. Why do they make limited edition production piece of greater than 1000 pieces when their annual production is 25,000?

6. Why do they constantly need to make countless limited edition celebrity watches?

7. Why do they need to change leadership and corporate structure so dramatically the past few years?

8. Are these the actions of a top 3 watch brand?

What you have brought up are some company or marketing issues which the AP management is courageously sorting out to steer for a better and more sustainable growth. They are looking ahead and, as had proven, they always do.

IMO AP is always in the forefront in terms of innovations and they are never boring. The RO and ROO set trends, and others (including your Top 2 brands) followed. If I'm not wrong, AP is the first to put a tourbillon on a wristwatch, and the rest followed. They innovate the watch marketing strategy, and many others followed. So when come the BRAND, I dare say AP has been very successful in making themselves visible, and the awareness is not restricted to only being known as an expensive brand.

[R_Ongjoco]

Why be so critical of AP? Did they hurt you or your family? If you dont like the brand, move on. I know this is a watch community, but most of your posts are very critical of AP which doesnt benefit anyone to be honest.

[orangedial]

And seriously, how did you or your group define yourselves as WIS?

[Mavrick]

I dont post often (I really should) but love to read most posts, but not this one!

[yonggoh]

while i probably dont qualify as an WIS, as an AP owner i feel i may have my 2cents

sadly after my own PERSONAL experience with unreliability issues of my own 2012 Jumbo... it is likely that ill be looking elsewhere when i find spare money to buy my next piece...

http://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=278703

im sad cause THAT Audemars was my grail piece...

perhaps the problem will be resolved with a happy ending, and most likely my incident was isolated, but one can only draw from personal experiences... and for this price point, being bitten one time is just too much for me to risk again...

[TSW]

You and your small group of "WIS" friends can think what you like.
But for me AP will always be among the three, And i do not think VC should be up there anymore.

[fminus]

I think the OP does have a point and whether we agree or not its good food for though!
That being said. I just bought a new ROO Rose RC :)

[yyzpam]

Wow.....you seem to be harbouring some major resentment and dislike towards AP as a brand. Did you have a bad experience? It is good to know that you and your friends spent time in deep discussion and came to such a well reasoned conclusion. Maybe you guys should head over to the Vatican, you can sit in a room and ponder the issue at hand. We will all wait for the coloured smoke to see what you decided.

Hopefully you feel better now that you got this weight off your chest. Was your therapist not available ?

[ghotihead2001]

Originally Posted by DK3

It seemed that AP is attracting many people that only want the royal oak shape as a status symbol like those that want a shinny rolex as an attempt to show status.

sure some specific watches may be more recognizable than others and everyone's motivation to choose a particular watch is their own, but
in one breath you are arguing against certain status symbols and in another you are debating the "top brands" (read "top status")...

I welcome your opinions but dont think all the points in your argument are well thought out...

[DK3]

I actually love AP but I am saddened by the how current management has treated such a great brand. I wish the brand could have management worthy to carry the amazing legacy AP had developed over many generations. AP has such a great history and legacy that needs to be carried on by a a corporate generation that respects that brand. I think the current management of AP is not worthy of the brand and is destroying their greatness. You can think whatever you want but I am not alone, and many watch lovers that have given up on AP are not on the AP forum. I hope AP management reads this forum and realize how much AP lovers feel they are ruining the brand because of their sad management and marketing strategies.

[kilyung]

Originally Posted by DK3

I actually love AP but I am saddened by the how current management has treated such a great brand. I wish the brand could have management worthy to carry the amazing legacy AP had developed over many generations. AP has such a great history and legacy that needs to be carried on by a a corporate generation that respects that brand. I think the current management of AP is not worthy of the brand and is destroying their greatness. You can think whatever you want but I am not alone, and many watch lovers that have given up on AP are not on the AP forum. I hope AP management reads this forum and realize how much AP lovers feel they are ruining the brand because of their sad management and marketing strategies.

You do realize that there's a new CEO? I mean literally within the last 60 days? Many of new initiatives are aimed at reversing some of the issues you point out.

[Glenn422]

Not much companies out there can make a grand complication..and AP do make them. They even start to put them in offshore cases. Look at the AP escapement as well. And the famous Cal 3120 regarded as one of the best auto winding in the industry. Still not convinced AP is in the top 3? It's true the ROO is endorsed a lot but the RO isn't. It will remain an icon and a classic in the watch industry.

[DK3]

The new CEO and the strategy in the U.S. is where all of it comes from. The fact that they chose the new president is what saddens me most about AP. He wants more celebrity relationships and he is the one that lowered prices on AP watches. The fact that AP chose him as president says it all.

[Watchonisto]

Well with all that, I still love AP's! And for me is no.1

[yonggoh]

Originally Posted by TSW

You and your small group of "WIS" friends can think what you like.
But for me AP will always be among the three, And i do not think VC should be up there anymore.

Vacheron out..
A.Lange & Sohne IN!!!