A winder question...

[Demonoid]

Hi guys.

Lately I have been struggling with the way I am handling my precious AP's. I have them all displayed on a winder and they look great. But, Is this the way to go?

I have heard a lot of stories regarding the winder pro vs cons, but I really dont know what to make of all the info thats out there.

The only thing that I can see positive from a winder, aside of having your watch ready, is the fact that you can break them in. Sometimes you will not be able to determine if something is wrong with your watch the first year if you just wear them occasionally.

The other thing is, although having the motor running all the time, might shorten the watch life span, wouldn't it be the same for the crown? I have seen horror stories of loose crowns etc. since they have to be manipulated on a constant basis.

What do you guys think? Can you guys give me a little piece of mind?

[diver2012]

Most problems we see with AP's seem to be with the crowns.

For that reason if you don't wear the watch daily I would personally put it on a winder and avoid using the crown more than necessary.

[s14roller]

I have heard some crown issues if someone pulls too hard, but IMO, easier to fix the crown/stem vs. fixing the movement...

[B. Doggy]

I use a winder. Of all these threads I've seen, it's about a 50/50 split for what folks think. It won't hurt your watch though. It's no different than if you wore any one of them every day.

My wife has a ladies ROO which she took delivery of in February, unfortunately it stopped working after a couple of months. It went back to AP who repaired it and had it back to her within a month. Whilst I was speaking with them I specifically asked whether the fact that she uses a winder had any influence on the problem and the lady who I spoke to categorically stated that it was perfectly fine to use a winder.

I know that isn't exactly the way that you asked your question and that you were specific in your area of interest but I just thought I'd chime in with the comment from AP themselves relating to a winder in general.

[T. Ferguson]

Originally Posted by B. Doggy

...It's no different than if you wore any one of them every day.

This is true and is exactly why I don't use a winder for watches I only wear occasionally. And for any watch I do wear daily then a winder is not needed.

As for problems with the AP crown, to the extent this is an issue I'd think you'd rather find out about it during the warranty period. If it keeps accurate time and you keep it on a winder then you likely won't find out until it's on your dime. Using the crown to wind and set the watch should in two years reveal if there is an issue.

To each his own, just my preference to not use a winder.

[jackwebb]

I had a discussion about winders with a Rolex watchmaker yesterday. I do not use a winder and tend to wear one watch for a week or more most of the time. His advice was that if you had to use the crown more than 3 times a month you needed a winder. He said that over use of the crown will wear it and the crown tube out prematurely. I asked him about under use of the crown and problems stemming from that, and his opinion was 2 - 3 times a month is adequate.

This topic has me interested. So there are significant crown related issues? I confess I haven't searched for any, but neither has the topic presented itself to me other than in this thread. I have to wind my watch as its not automatic and it takes a LOT of winding. I do this once a week. If mine ever breaks, warranty or not, then for sure its going back with a stern letter. A watch has to be fit for the purpose, as does everything, and this includes winding it, assuming no abuse of course. I'd take the same stance with an automatic, the crown is there for a purpose. So, inconvenience of sending it back for repairs aside, this should surely be a no cost fault, even if outside of the warranty period. Or at least that is my thinking.

[Chulo]

What kind do most people use?

[B. Doggy]

Originally Posted by Chulo

What kind do most people use?

Orbita makes fantastic winders. They have a technology in which the watch just swings back and forth every 15 minutes or so. It mimics your natural wrist action....at least as best it can.

Originally Posted by Chulo

What kind do most people use?

My wife uses Orbita's.

[cdnyc]

I use Kubik. Always been interested in this debate too. I think the watch collecting world has enough money pumping through it that we deserve some well-controlled clinical studies on the matter!!

[HKRolexFans]

I did some extensive research on watch winder some time ago for my recently purchased timepiece. I did find it make sense to buy a decent winder if you own more than one watch if you want to wear them on rotation say every few days without adjusting the time and date. It helps to eliminate the potential damage to the crown.

I ended up purchased a few winders that were locally designed and made. It has a programmable control that can adjust the number of turns per day to suit the different kind of movement and also the direction of turn. Before the research, I didn't know that some movements can only be winded in one direction and some can be bi-directional; some need 800 TPD while some need only 650 - that was a huge knowledge for watch lovers.

Anyway, just my 2 cents, happy hunting

[QueueCumber]

The way I look at it, winding the watch means the gears are being used more, which means wearing down the parts more, which means more expensive upkeep. I would rather rotate which ones I take out of the security box at the bank and keep the wear lower by letting them stay unwound when not in use.

Originally Posted by QueueCumber

The way I look at it, winding the watch means the gears are being used more, which means wearing down the parts more, which means more expensive upkeep. I would rather rotate which ones I take out of the security box at the bank and keep the wear lower by letting them stay unwound when not in use.

So does your insurance cover everything you have when you are wearing them on a one at a time basis and gives you a break on the premium given that most of them aren't at risk?

I pay what I think is a fair price on an 'all risks' basis, but was wondering what happens if I add more. That said I probably wouldn't go to the effort of keeping them at a bank, so I'm really just thinking aloud.

Thanks.

[HKRolexFans]

Originally Posted by QueueCumber

The way I look at it, winding the watch means the gears are being used more, which means wearing down the parts more, which means more expensive upkeep. I would rather rotate which ones I take out of the security box at the bank and keep the wear lower by letting them stay unwound when not in use.

That was a very interesting perspective of viewing the way a watch shall be worn and wind in the winder.

[QueueCumber]

Originally Posted by 26288OF

So does your insurance cover everything you have when you are wearing them on a one at a time basis and gives you a break on the premium given that most of them aren't at risk?

I pay what I think is a fair price on an 'all risks' basis, but was wondering what happens if I add more. That said I probably wouldn't go to the effort of keeping them at a bank, so I'm really just thinking aloud.

Thanks.

Rates change on whether I have a home safe or not and based on price range covered. The only time storing them in the bank changes insurance rates for me is if I decide to put my pieces on specific plans that only allow me to take a specific piece out three times a year for two weeks at a time and leave it in the bank at all other times in between. This lowers rates significantly but seriously impedes my access to the watches I place on that kind of plan, as you need to notify the insurance company whenever you remove it . Honestly, if you store your watches in a safety deposit box, insurance is unnecessary IMO. At least it seems that way to me, but I am meticulous in caring for my pieces when they are outside the bank, and I don't wear expensive pieces anywhere that may be potentially dangerous. I won't even wear my more expensive pieces to NYC! I also only bring cheap watches on vacations...

Thanks, that's what I thought. From my perspective too much effort to go to. Plus, I want an 'all risks' coverage all of the time. I have a home safe, monitored alarm and armed response all mandated by the insurance company, but in turn that makes the premium far lower than it could have been. Thanks for the insight though. Sorry to go off topic, back to the plot.

[QueueCumber]

Originally Posted by 26288OF

So does your insurance cover everything you have when you are wearing them on a one at a time basis and gives you a break on the premium given that most of them aren't at risk?

I pay what I think is a fair price on an 'all risks' basis, but was wondering what happens if I add more. That said I probably wouldn't go to the effort of keeping them at a bank, so I'm really just thinking aloud.

Thanks.

I'm actually going to inquire about your idea above to see if my insurance would offer a deal like that. They definitely don't in any standard plans that were laid out for me....

[QueueCumber]

Originally Posted by 26288OF

Thanks, that's what I thought. From my perspective too much effort to go to. Plus, I want an 'all risks' coverage all of the time. I have a home safe, monitored alarm and armed response all mandated by the insurance company, but in turn that makes the premium far lower than it could have been. Thanks for the insight though. Sorry to go off topic, back to the plot.

The biggest risk IMO is theft/robbery, so I take that issue out of my house completely. I do store whatever piece I have out of the bank in the safe over night though. The video monitoring in my home will snag anyone who breaks, and if I am not home there is no jewelry to steal anyway. If I am home, I know someone is on the premises long before they get anywhere near the house, and the police are right down the road (no joke!).

What about theft from you? and just plain loss? My wife has some jewelry and watches that I definitely want covered for everything. My watches I want covered in the same way. Just FYI I pay a 1.4% premium for all risks, including accidental damage, loss, theft etc. Peace of mind that's all.

[QueueCumber]

Originally Posted by 26288OF

What about theft from you? and just plain loss? My wife has some jewelry and watches that I definitely want covered for everything. My watches I want covered in the same way. Just FYI I pay a 1.4% premium for all risks, including accidental damage, loss, theft etc. Peace of mind that's all.

I don't wear them where I have to worry about theft from me, and I won't be losing any of them. I have some stuff covered (more expensive jewelry and a couple of my pieces), but nothing on the lower end of the price spectrum.

[QueueCumber]

Basic homeowners will cover theft up to a certain price, so if I only have one piece in the house it is often already covered under that umbrella.

[Demonoid]

Very intersting guys. I want to thank all of you out there who have taken the time to comment on this topic. As far as it goes, I think am safe using the winders.

[VICI]

So I've found my 15400 running about 2 minutes fast during a week time frame. (I keep it in a Wolf winder at 600 rotations, bidirectional)

I went to an AP AD today and was told that winders aren't recommended and to just set the time when not wearing it for a while.

My thoughts are that the gears are lubricated by oils that can dry up if let to sit. An object in motion tends to stay in motion... I'd venture to say that keeping the movement well oiled and active is a good thing.

Reality is, these movements should have a lifespans beyond ours.

[padi56]

Originally Posted by jackwebb

I had a discussion about winders with a Rolex watchmaker yesterday. I do not use a winder and tend to wear one watch for a week or more most of the time. His advice was that if you had to use the crown more than 3 times a month you needed a winder. He said that over use of the crown will wear it and the crown tube out prematurely. I asked him about under use of the crown and problems stemming from that, and his opinion was 2 - 3 times a month is adequate.

Complete and utter nonsense what about the millions of manual wind watches with screw down crowns Rolex included.Now they got wound up almost daily for decades without any problems.Today there are many myths about Rolex plus many other watches.And things like crowns, crown tubes, are mostly replaced on normal routine service any way.I used to have two manual wind Rolex OP my sons wear them now almost daily, both 40 years old.Yet they are still getting wound up daily and worn, yes they both had normal replacement parts over the decades much like any automatic watch would of had over the same period.

[QueueCumber]

Originally Posted by Alex_NYC

My thoughts are that the gears are lubricated by oils that can dry up if let to sit. An object in motion tends to stay in motion... I'd venture to say that keeping the movement well oiled and active is a good thing.

I'm no expert but this article states that oil is evaporated (dried up...) due to the heat created by the movement of the gears. An oiled gear that is in motion will dry up and cause frictional damage because the motion creates heat. The oil would only dry up on its own if the heat where it is stored is significant enough to cause that particular lubricant to evaporate.

http://www.abbeyclock.com/aoiltwo.html

I'm not sure what temperature is sufficient to evaporate the oils in watches, but it would seem that the addition of movement to the gears will always add more heat via friction than when a watch is not running at all.

This can be understood practically in terms of Newton's first law which you only partially quoted: Every object in a state of uniform motion tends to remain in that state of motion unless an external force is applied to it. In this case you have multiple objects (gears, etc.) applying external forces to multiple objects (gears, etc.) in motion via friction.

[padi56]

With today's mainly synthetic oils used the past problem with oils evaporating and thickening as when they used mineral oils is now mostly past tense.Ask yourselves this you had the choice of two identical watches one been sat on a winder for 5 years.The other NOS never been wound which one would you guys choose.I know which one I would and it would not be the one that's been on a winder.If any watch is stored just let it stop and if longer than a month or so, just give them a small manual wind just to let it start.

[VICI]

Padi - given the superior lubrication and protective properties of synthetic oils, one would believe that the parts of the movement should not be damaged by staying in a winder.

Can you help me understand why the synthetically lubricated movement of a stagnant watch is considered more preferable than one that's been kept in a winder and furthermore, could one movement be identified as NOS vs winder?

[padi56]

Originally Posted by Alex_NYC

Padi - given the superior lubrication and protective properties of synthetic oils, one would believe that the parts of the movement should not be damaged by staying in a winder.

Can you help me understand why the synthetically lubricated movement of a stagnant watch is considered more preferable than one that's been kept in a winder and furthermore, could one movement be identified as NOS vs winder?

Quite simple if a watch is stopped no wear on movement parts, if watch is running then there is natural wear on the movement parts its not rocket science.

Below is a quote from one of our own forum TechXpert watchmakers.
All Rolex automatic movements wind in both directions just like many others.For any non perpetual calendar watch, a watch winder is totally unnecessary.If you have a choice of watches and do not wear it every day, it is not real chore to reset it and wind it by hand.If you don't wear it every day you also reduce wear to the movement components, why waste that benefit by having it wound when it is not required to tell the time?