6541 Milgauss Hands Repair

[watchchillin]

I'm in the process of repairing my '58 Milgauss. It's been sitting in my junk drawer for many many years. I know, I'm crazy! Anyway, everything is genuine accept it was always missing the hands and bezel insert. I just bought the hands from a guy in Italy. I spent $2K on them just because I want totally factory original. Question to the experts, when I get them, how do I test for authenticity? I'm assuming the hands are brass or some sort of antimagnetic. I don't want to get screwed so any help is welcome. Btw, still in need of the insert. Any ideas where I could get one or do I have to mug a bloke for it...lol jk!

[watchcrank]

I would ask some experts when they arrive and post some very good close ups of the hands. M

[lupus]

should be radium. geiger them.

[watchchillin]

I didn't buy the radium loaded hands. I got the solid ones and thunderbolt with red tip. That's what my Serial should have according to what Rolex told me.

[joe100]

Are you a watchmaker WC? You might want to let the professionals handle this one if you aren't. Bob Ridley will sort you. A watch worth as much as a nice BMW isn't a DIY project

[watchchillin]

Joe, you hit the nail on the head. Got Bob on my short list of ONE! Sending to him for service too.

[joe100]

Glad to hear it. Rolex and DIY never go together. Please share photos once its finished. Hell, photos of it now would be great too!

[springer]

Place a magnet on them. If they adhere to the magnet, they are steel! Silver, stainless steel, brass, gold are not magnetic.

I'm not a watchmaker but I did sleep in a Holiday Inn last night!

[mdw3]

Originally Posted by watchchillin

I'm in the process of repairing my '58 Milgauss. It's been sitting in my junk drawer for many many years. I know, I'm crazy! Anyway, everything is genuine accept it was always missing the hands and bezel insert. I just bought the hands from a guy in Italy. I spent $2K on them just because I want totally factory original. Question to the experts, when I get them, how do I test for authenticity? I'm assuming the hands are brass or some sort of antimagnetic. I don't want to get screwed so any help is welcome. Btw, still in need of the insert. Any ideas where I could get one or do I have to mug a bloke for it...lol jk!

I think for $2k you didn't buy "factory original" 6541 hands (if you bought a lightning bolt hand in that package). I have, in the past six months, supplied two sets to needy collectors for $12,000 each (and that was actually a pretty good deal).

Michael

[watchchillin]

Michael, I feel a lot better hearing this from you. For the lightening bolt I gave a set of Patek Philippe 530 hands I've had for years. The seller is well-known so I'm expecting it to be correct. The hour-minute hands are the ones I'm concerned about. I'll post photos Friday when they arrive.

[watchchillin]

Springer!!!! still laughing.....that's classic!!!!!

[Michael M.]

Any pics?? :-)

[mdw3]

Originally Posted by watchchillin

Michael, I feel a lot better hearing this from you. For the lightening bolt I gave a set of Patek Philippe 530 hands I've had for years. The seller is well-known so I'm expecting it to be correct. The hour-minute hands are the ones I'm concerned about. I'll post photos Friday when they arrive.

The good news: the hour and minute hands are standard 1030-based hands, also used in many other simple time-only models that have nothing to do with Milgauss. I would imagine if you bought a set of those they will be authentic; I haven't seen too many imitations of those, it is the seconds hand that is where the money is.\

The bad news: I just re-read your earlier post, that I had missed. A lightning-bolt hand with red tip is not authentic, always aftermarket! Sorry.

Michael

[mdw3]

A correct insert will run you close to $20,000 if you are lucky enough to find one. I need one also right now.

Michael

[watchchillin]

I received the ligthening bolt hands today. My first impression was original but eyeballing is not enough for something that cost so much! I decided to take in for materials testing. The process is called XRF PMI. It's not cheap but it in this case, worth its weight in gold. After having the test, the guy came to me with a perplexing look on his face. Based on his analysis, I pretty darn confident I've got original. Although I'm not going to give material details, let's just say it's not the type you run down to the hardware store and buy, or any store for that matter. It's a white metal that I was told is a little bizzare in fact. I'll take some photos and post today.

[CaveDiver]

Originally Posted by mdw3

The bad news: I just re-read your earlier post, that I had missed. A lightning-bolt hand with red tip is not authentic, always aftermarket! Sorry.

Michael

Michael, are you saying this is an aftermarket lightning bolt?

[mdw3]

Originally Posted by CaveDiver

Michael, are you saying this is an aftermarket lightning bolt?

No. My opinion is that someone later painted that tip red.

Michael

[greekbum]

Originally Posted by mdw3

No. My opinion is that someone later painted that tip red.
Michael

Michael I have never seen any old literature showing a red tipped hand. Have you?

[mdw3]

Originally Posted by greekbum

Michael I have never seen any old literature showing a red tipped hand. Have you?

Never. I believe red-tipped hands are a fantasy.

Michael

[CaveDiver]

Nikos, how much should we put in that literature you posted? It does not show the red on the insert either...and what about the case too?

I'm Not saying red on hand is from factory, just looking for data to prove the theory.

[greekbum]

Originally Posted by CaveDiver

Nikos, how much should we put in that literature you posted? It does not show the red on the insert either...and what about the case too?

I'm Not saying red on hand is from factory, just looking for data to prove the theory.

I have never seen a red hand in the few as found watches I have handled before. Looking through all my vintage ads I could not find a mention or pic of it either so I asked and we got a response above

[mdw3]

Originally Posted by CaveDiver

Nikos, how much should we put in that literature you posted? It does not show the red on the insert either...and what about the case too?

I'm Not saying red on hand is from factory, just looking for data to prove the theory.

'50s Rolex product brochures included artists' illustrations of the watches, which are not always perfect renderings of all details (although they are fairly accurate in my experience). Nonetheless, I will stand by my opinion that any 6541 lightning bolt with red tip is (a) aftermarket, or (b) later painted, because everyone knows red is sexy and collectors love it!

And, I believe you will find that any example of a 6541 seen with a red-tipped hand is a "dealer" or "collector" watch, which has already potentially passed through a restoration phase. In my experience, you will not find documented examples with this feature fresh out of original owners' hands.

[CaveDiver]

Originally Posted by mdw3

... because everyone knows red is sexy and collectors love it!

I agree with that...a nice red tip looks better than an old corroded tip.

[mdw3]

Originally Posted by CaveDiver

I agree with that...a nice red tip looks better than an old corroded tip.

And so would lots of other cool things that never saw the inside of the Rolex factory!

[greekbum]

Michael I have to agree with your statement above. If you go way back to Kamals site you will see an almost NOS 1 full set no red hand and a few others.

[mdw3]

Originally Posted by greekbum

Michael I have to agree with your statement above. If you go way back to Kamals site you will see an almost NOS 1 full set no red hand and a few others.

Yes. And of the five that I have owned, all had the correct (corroded) handsets when purchased from original owners (or their heirs), and none had red tips.

[watchchillin]

Agree with Michael. Mine came with no paint. Still need to post pics but to sum up what I've learned so far, the hand is factory plated over substrate material. The red tips look totally non-factory as far as quality. Just my opinion. But, I don't know if I agree that the minute and hour hands are standard from 1030 movements either. The ones from those watches, substrate material is brass. It's not brass on 6541. Michael, please chime in if I'm off base. Maybe it's why these things are so expensive to begin with.

[mdw3]

Originally Posted by watchchillin

Agree with Michael. Mine came with no paint. Still need to post pics but to sum up what I've learned so far, the hand is factory plated over substrate material. The red tips look totally non-factory as far as quality. Just my opinion. But, I don't know if I agree that the minute and hour hands are standard from 1030 movements either. The ones from those watches, substrate material is brass. It's not brass on 6541. Michael, please chime in if I'm off base. Maybe it's why these things are so expensive to begin with.

I think the hour and minutes are standard 1030 hands. I have found them in too many parts bins and watchmakers benches for them to be 6541-specific. I don't have a parts catalogue handy, but I am sure they are assigned the same part number as those on many other watches from the period.

Michael