AP 15202ST Dial Question

[stewing]

Hi, All. I recently purchased my first AP from from a forum member, a Royal Oak 15202ST (39mm jumbo). It arrived today, so I spent some time examining it. Owning Rolex, I've become accustomed to looking at perfect dials. Today while admiring the tapisserie dial, I felt that something was off. So, I picked up a 10x triplet and got a better look. This is what I saw. Notice the alignment of the Audemars Piguet text.





It looks like the Audemars Piguet text is crooked. You can see the recessed area for the printing isn't square with the tapisserie.

I've got a few questions.

1. Is this fairly obvious imperfection something I should expect?
2. Is this typical of AP?
3. Should I be concerned about this watch? Does this call its authenticity (in whole or in part) in to question?
4. I've see some pictures of other 15202STs and noticed that the date wheel font is different. Can anyone confirm that mine is the same or different as theirs?

Thanks for you input.

[jojosnr]

oh wow. A bit unusual to me.

[craniotes]

Very strange. I'll check my charcoal dial Jumbo when I get back into the city on Sunday.

Regards,
Adam

[orangedial]

I'm not sure if it is normal or just that I'm a little picky, but I feel that the hour markers and the printing of the words on this particular dial is somehow not properly aligned. My observation is mainly base on the alignment of the hour markers with respect to the grids of the tapisserie dial (look at the placement of markers at 1 vs 11 o'clock, 2 vs 10 o'clock , 4 vs 8 o'clock, and 5 vs 7 o'clock), and the recess area for the Audemars Piguet wording.

Maybe should get APSC to check.

[subtona]

at 10x magnification, you are asking for trouble...
it looks a bit off here or there at that mag but, you have to take into account the shape of the letters at the edges and how they decide to deal with their balance.

my aquanaut has a lot of places on the dial that are not precisely matching the mirror image, but it is due to the variation in the number sizes and shapes, single digits vs double & spacing for the date window.

its all about the overall balance, when dissected at 10x very few things can hold up.


i have a loop, but 4x is the max i dare use

[redsubby]

The 1st photo is very clear that it's off, does not need a 10x magnification.

[waspy1]

Seen this before, not sure if common but I'm pretty sure it's authentic.

[Puffy]

I'd expect it to be aligned. This would drive me nuts

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 2

[Hanz079]

It would bug me... better get it checked ... dial replacement perhaps?

[diver2012]

I think they should replace the dial FOC personally as it should not have slipped through QC like that.

[stewing]

Originally Posted by subtona

at 10x magnification, you are asking for trouble...

Agreed, but I first noticed this with just my eyes. I would describe the aberation as slight, but noticeable. To be fair, I'm an extremely particular and I would notice just about anything askew, no matter how minute.

[stewing]

Originally Posted by waspy1

Seen this before, not sure if common but I'm pretty sure it's authentic.

Can you be more specific about what you've seen? Was the variation the same as with this dial?

[stewing]

Originally Posted by orangedial

I'm not sure if it is normal or just that I'm a little picky, but I feel that the hour markers and the printing of the words on this particular dial is somehow not properly aligned. My observation is mainly base on the alignment of the hour markers with respect to the grids of the tapisserie dial (look at the placement of markers at 1 vs 11 o'clock, 2 vs 10 o'clock , 4 vs 8 o'clock, and 5 vs 7 o'clock), and the recess area for the Audemars Piguet wording.

Maybe should get APSC to check.

Your observations are key to seeing what's really wrong with this dial (at least as I understand it at the moment). It looks like the tapisserie is rotated a few degrees clockwise and that this is causing all of my distress.

Thanks for the making me look at dial as a whole.

[stewing]

Originally Posted by diver2012

I think they should replace the dial FOC personally as it should not have slipped through QC like that.

Originally Posted by Hanz079

It would bug me... better get it checked ... dial replacement perhaps?

I called the Clearwater, FL service center yesterday to confirm some information the seller presented (warranty, service dates), but they were closed for Independence Day.

I'm going to call AP again on Monday. Of course, I'll bring this up with them. Assuming there's interest in the outcome, I'll update this thread with what I find.

[waspy1]

Originally Posted by stewing

Can you be more specific about what you've seen? Was the variation the same as with this dial?

I'm not sure which reference it was on, a RO of some sort - I think it was on this forum, but yes it was just like this. The text is applied on top of the tapisserie and seems to have been stuck down out of line.

[diver2012]

Originally Posted by waspy1

I'm not sure which reference it was on, a RO of some sort - I think it was on this forum, but yes it was just like this. The text is applied on top of the tapisserie and seems to have been stuck down out of line.

This isn't the text though - its the actually box in which the text is inserted which is wonky.

[stewing]

Ok, I think I found the thread. It seems to deal more with the bezel screws.

https://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=253963

Is that the right one? If so, it's not encouraging for sure.

Anyway, I took a look at what AP publishes on their web site. It looks like the lettering on this 15300 is a bit askew with respect to the tapisserie too.



Most of the closeups AP show dials whose text isn't perfectly lined up. The orientation of most dial components aside from the hands seem to vary, including the recessed text area, with respect to the tapisserie pattern.

I'm beginning to think that it's the tapisserie itself that's crooked. I suppose this is what you get when you have a dial that's got the exactitude of graph paper; nothing floats.

[azg913]

can u post photos of the case back? is should be see-thru exposing a gold rotor

[subtona]

Originally Posted by stewing

....
I'm beginning to think that it's the tapisserie itself that's crooked. I suppose this is what you get when you have a dial that's got the exactitude of graph paper; nothing floats.

have you seen the videos of how they make the tapisserie... its incredible...

http://www.hodinkee.com/blog/2012/1/...royal-oak.html


http://blog.perpetuelle.com/watches/...ie-dial-video/

[cdnyc]

For what it's worth, I had to go to the boutique to point out / argue about an asymmetry on two occasions. Both of mine had to do with the bracelet. They ALWAYS chalks it up to the handmade process and move into the subjective debate of whether it's within spec or not. This has been the only gripe that I've personally experienced with AP. I'm living with one of my issues. The other one, I couldn't live with and they addressed it. But it was under warranty.

If the movement on your watch looks legit, I bet your watch is real and it's just one of those issues.

[subtona]

Originally Posted by cdnyc81

For what it's worth, I had to go to the boutique to point out / argue about an asymmetry on two occasions. Both of mine had to do with the bracelet. They ALWAYS chalks it up to the handmade process and move into the subjective debate of whether it's within spec or not. This has been the only gripe that I've personally experienced with AP. I'm living with one of my issues. The other one, I couldn't live with and they addressed it. But it was under warranty.

If the movement on your watch looks legit, I bet your watch is real and it's just one of those issues.

had the same problem with a submariner, the dial was swapped under warranty and the case was not... they said the case was within tolerances, this was indisputable B/S, they refused any acknowledgment or documentation regarding their specs, left me a very very disappointed customer... the issue was the lugholes were drilled crooked and the bracelet sat unevenly against the watch case...


if the OP can notice it with the naked eye, then it should be resolved by AP or it should be blown up 100x and shared with the internet, along with dissatisfaction.

[stewing]

Originally Posted by subtona

have you seen the videos of how they make the tapisserie... its incredible...

I have. It's a pretty wild process for sure. For anyone that's not seen the video, it's well worth the time.

[stewing]

Originally Posted by cdnyc81

If the movement on your watch looks legit, I bet your watch is real and it's just one of those issues.

Tot he limited extent I can, I've done a few comparisons; the movement and case appear otherwise identical between mine and photographs on the web. I'm applying the same level of scrutiny that allowed me to notice this in the first place. I'm beginning to agree that this is maybe a more noticeable example of the kinds of problems you had.

Here's best closeup of the movement I could get. The movement number is legible on the movement although it's not in this picture.



And, one zoomed out a bit.

[CharlieSheen]

the "automatic" text on my 15400 is crooked just the slightest bit as well. I learned that it is rolled on instead of stamped so it leaves room for error

[stewing]

Originally Posted by subtona

if the OP can notice it with the naked eye, then it should be resolved by AP or it should be blown up 100x and shared with the internet, along with dissatisfaction.

One of the reasons that I asked about this was that I have no prior experience with AP and my expectations might be off. I wasn't really sure if this was the kind of thing anyone would even mention. Watch people tend to be particular and I am no exception. It's noticeable to an insane person like me for sure. Would my mother notice it? Probably not.

The pictures I've posted have been closeups for sure. For your consideration, here's a less zoomed image with natural light.

Note that I adjusted the time so the hands don't obscure the printing we're discussing.

[stewing]

Originally Posted by CharlieSheen

the "automatic" text on my 15400 is crooked just the slightest bit as well. I learned that it is rolled on instead of stamped so it leaves room for error

Could you post a picture?

[travisb]

I've heard of this before.
The text is hand applied, so it doesn't suprise me. Never can be 100% perfect 100% of the time, but at that price point I'd want it corrected.
I've had nothing but positive experiences with the Clearwater SC. See what they say.
Even if past factory warranty, it's possible that they "might" correct it free of charge and write it off as a manufacturers deffect.
Good luck and let us know..

[martinr]

I don't see how AP could fix it. That dial isn't made now.

[AK797]

Originally Posted by travisb

I've heard of this before.
The text is hand applied, so it doesn't suprise me. Never can be 100% perfect 100% of the time, but at that price point I'd want it corrected.

I accept that as it is hand made but on the wrist, not with a loupe, if it was something that caught my eye then I wouldn't buy it. Its something we all should def be looking out for as a potential QC fail as for me its a complete deal breaker so if you are not buying in person then make sure you request straight unobscured macro pics.

[jojosnr]

hand made or feet made, I think it is not acceptable.