Explorer 1016 retailed by Cartier

[Ladydimic]

I have an Explorer 1016 with the Cartier insignia on the dial. It was bought. For me by my parents many years ago from an estate sale. It was worn for many years before we noticed the Cartier insignia on it. We've searched for a few years for more information on it. All we can find is that there aren't many out thee. Does anyone out there know how many were made?

[joe100]

Looks like a redone dial. Cartier pieces are often faked...

[Ladydimic]

It's definitely authentic. It's been serviced and authenticated at Tourneau corner in Manhattan. There is also a stamp on the lug supposedly from Cartier. we are going to the city to get it authenticated from Cartier also. We just can't figure out how many of this model were retailed by Cartier and what it's value may be.

[Lgear080]

Cartier and tourneau authentication is useless. You'll want something in writing from
Rolex. I'd be interested to say what the Rsc says.

[joe100]

We really don't do valuations here. The dial has been relumed at the very least. A 1016 expert will be along to give a better opinion on the dial but from my eye, it looks suspect to me

[padi56]

Originally Posted by Ladydimic

I have an Explorer 1016 with the Cartier insignia on the dial. It was bought. For me by my parents many years ago from an estate sale. It was worn for many years before we noticed the Cartier insignia on it. We've searched for a few years for more information on it. All we can find is that there aren't many out thee. Does anyone out there know how many were made?

If you don't have the original paperwork it would be quite difficult to prove it was retailed though Cartier unless you could get providence from Cartier or Rolex..The last Rolex watches to bare a retailers name was around mid 1980s and with these types of watches original paperwork is paramount.And its mainly watches like the Subs Daytona that are the most collectible.

[Ladydimic]

I'm not sure what relumed means but we have had this watch for almost 30 years and it's only ever been touched by rolex for a servicing. We didn't even notice the Cartier insignia. Does anyone know where I would go to get any documentation from rolex and Cartier? Any help would be appreciated.

[Ladydimic]

I'm posting a few more pictures to capture the detail on the dial. Not sure if it's any clearer for you.....

[Ladydimic]

Here's another picture

[laphroaig007]

I was not aware about the fact that old Explorer had jubilee bracelets........

[joe100]

Originally Posted by laphroaig007

I was not aware about the fact that old Explorer had jubilee bracelets........

Back in the golden age of vintage watches, you could specify which bracelet you wanted. You do occasionally see 1016s, 5500s etc with jubilees. You could also get GMTs and Explorer 2s with Sub bracelets if you needed the diver extension to go over a flight suit or jacket.

These were dealer installed options moslty.

[watchcrank]

It would be nice to have a close up of the Cartier logo. I believe that like Tiffany these were stamped by outside sources and not Rolex. As to verification by Rolex or Cartier, good luck with that, as I have never seen them do it unless you have owned watch since new and are a VIP. Value is in eye of the buyer as said many are faked but I would think a small premium of no more than 20% without papers "might" be expected. If someone is very certain of stamp that changes valuation. You might check the Explorer book from Mondani as they have some listed with good scans. m

[Lgear080]

At the heart of the issue is that even if the watch is "authentic"
Cartier added the logo after the watch left Rolex. Secondarily,
I've never seen one in over twenty years, which doesn't bode
We'll.

[Tools]

Originally Posted by Ladydimic

It's definitely authentic. It's been serviced and authenticated at Tourneau corner in Manhattan. There is also a stamp on the lug supposedly from Cartier. we are going to the city to get it authenticated from Cartier also. We just can't figure out how many of this model were retailed by Cartier and what it's value may be.

You are really asking questions that cannot be answered. Nobody knows how many Explorers were made, let alone how many that vendors stamped with their own logo. Tiffany, Cartier, and a few others marked much of their sales product in the 70's to advertise until Rolex "disallowed" such branding.

Since Cartier stamped their own numbers on the lug, you would likely need to contact them as to how many they may have sold - although they may not have kept such records.

Logo/branded watches have their own niche and buyers who may pay extra for them. Much of the time the value is the same as without a logo. Provable Cartier and Tiffany should bring a premium although condition is always paramount with any used Rolex. A few minutes of research on the Internet will tell you about the possible market value.

Tourneau cannot possibly "authenticate" the Cartier pedigree - only Cartier can do that - or possibly the RSC if they kept such records of where their watches went for retail..

[Ladydimic]

This is the best I could get from my iPad.p

[accce]

How could you miss the Cartier stamp for many years?

[Ladydimic]

Originally Posted by accce

How could you miss the Cartier stamp for many years?

Haha. My husband got it from his parents when he was 15 and he just knew it was a Rolex and had been wearing it all these years. The script is quite small. About 3 years back, he wanted me to see how much the watch might be worth because he knew it was vintage, and considered selling it to buy a new one. When I was looking at pictures of other ones online, I noticed there was an extra line of words on the dial of our watch. When I looked at it more closely, I could see that it read Cartier. He since has not worn it awaiting more information about it.

[TurboWatch]

Originally Posted by Ladydimic

Haha. My husband got it from his parents when he was 15 and he just knew it was a Rolex and had been wearing it all these years. The script is quite small. About 3 years back, he wanted me to see how much the watch might be worth because he knew it was vintage, and considered selling it to buy a new one. When I was looking at pictures of other ones online, I noticed there was an extra line of words on the dial of our watch. When I looked at it more closely, I could see that it read Cartier. He since has not worn it awaiting more information about it.

None of us here knows enough about the watch to say it's genuine or otherwise. Take it to Rolex RSC, and contact Cartier to confirm the legitimacy of the dial.

[vintagewaferthin]

Something about that dial just seems suspect to me. Definatly take it to RSC as soon as you can.

[Beef]

When you expose the dial to bright light, does it have a greenish glow in the dark? If so, its definitely been relumed (had new glow in the dark paint) applied, at a minimum. About 5 or so years ago, there was a flood of "NOS" or used Tiffany and Cartier dials from Hong Kong. They were all over eBay. Explorer and Sub dials were the bulk of them. Some were very well done. But all were fake. I have to say, this does look like one of those to me. Particularly when looking at the hands for comparison. Just my $.02, which is worth exactly that. I hope I'm wrong, Lady!

[Ladydimic]

Originally Posted by Beef

When you expose the dial to bright light, does it have a greenish glow in the dark? If so, its definitely been relumed (had new glow in the dark paint) applied, at a minimum. About 5 or so years ago, there was a flood of "NOS" or used Tiffany and Cartier dials from Hong Kong. They were all over eBay. Explorer and Sub dials were the bulk of them. Some were very well done. But all were fake. I have to say, this does look like one of those to me. Particularly when looking at the hands for comparison. Just my $.02, which is worth exactly that. I hope I'm wrong, Lady!

Fortunately I believe you're wrong about it. We will try the light test, but
I can attest that this watch has been in our possession for 30 years so nobody has fooled with it ;-). And was bought 30 years ago from an estate sale so it's not from Ebay. Interesting to see all the opinions......

[gslaskin]

For what it's worth, I believe you and think the watch is authentic.

[harry in montreal]

It is a nice piece. You would need the original papers to support the provenance. Rolex dials are interchanged frequently and easily. This is why many of my colleagues above are skeptical. It's still a gem of a watch. That is a fact.

Can you snap a pic of the marking on the back?

[dysondiver]

i think its nice ,,, only thing that has struck me from the original pic to now ,,, the cartier isnt straight ,, maybe its not meant to be , i dont know ,,, maybe it shouldnt be.

[Beef]

Originally Posted by Ladydimic

Fortunately I believe you're wrong about it. We will try the light test, but
I can attest that this watch has been in our possession for 30 years so nobody has fooled with it ;-). And was bought 30 years ago from an estate sale so it's not from Ebay. Interesting to see all the opinions......

Believe me, I do hope that I am!! You have to understand, that even with really high rez pics like the ones Ken and Mike take, it is very difficult to authenticate a rare watch from pictures. Please keep us informed of any authentication that you may obtain. A documented Cartier branded EXP is much rarer than one by Tiffany, IMHO. If you can get this authenticated, it would be of benefit to us all here for reference purposes. Also, please remember that none of us are questioning your integrity or story. We are just giving our honest, unbiased opinions on the watch based on our knowledge ( varying degrees, I'll be the first to say) and your pictures. Good luck and get that 1016 checked out!

[watchcrank]

As to the "straightness" of line to Cartier. As with Tiffany these were not done with
Rolex attention to detail. They are all over the place from ones I have seen with the
stamping. And there are a few different fonts used by whoever stamped them too.
Good luck with the watch, personally I like it, just not sure of Cartier stamp and as said
we do not know the watch from new :-) Good luck. M

[dysondiver]

Originally Posted by watchcrank

As to the "straightness" of line to Cartier. As with Tiffany these were not done with
Rolex attention to detail. They are all over the place from ones I have seen with the
stamping. And there are a few different fonts used by whoever stamped them too.
Good luck with the watch, personally I like it, just not sure of Cartier stamp and as said
we do not know the watch from new :-) Good luck. M

exactly my point ,,, but ... fingers crossed , it would be extra special if you could find the paperwork from one source or another.

[GeoGio Greece]

To my opinion, the best scenario would be a redone dial. Look at the Rolex crown.

So, lets wait and see what the RSC will say.

[Ladydimic]

Update....the watch was authenticated and acquired by a very serious collector who knew exactly what he was looking at. No relumed dial....it was nice to have so responses and opinions. You all have been helpful. It was hard to part with, however.....

[Lgear080]

What did this collector pay?