Attention: Sars like H1N1 Flu Strain

[vitalsignsrn]

Hi All…

Im not sure if there have been any issues in the U.S or worldwide about the H1N1, although I think the Middle East has had several cases lately as well. Different strains, but Influenza A is still Sars. Seems like the darn virus is making a comeback. It really never went away back in 2003…and there was always a new strain or arm of it that kept it alive. Apart from causing some discomfort, hasn't attributed to many deaths. UNTIL now…BC has seen a surge in their cases filling up their ICU's, Alberta has seen cases sky rocket and have had a five deaths, same with Saskatchewan, and now we've had 2 deaths in Toronto with 36% of the cases confirmed as H1N1. Quebec has said they are on the lookout but suspect their case loads to be quite high.

Public health continues to urge those that have not had their flu shots to get one. Always advisable for the elderly and small children. I can't tell anyone what to do. You decide on your own. Apart that I am mandated as an RN in critical care that I strongly have to get the shot or risk being suspended without pay should my unit become quarantined, I do it because both my parents are elderly and I have a 4 yr old nephew and a 2 yr old niece, my brother his wife and dozens of family/close friends that interact with me very closely on a regular basis. If I don't try to keep them healthy, there isn't much point to my life.

Im going to back peddle to 2003 when Sars hit Toronto like a ton of bricks. Was the worse time of my life professionally and personally. There was pandemonium and no real plan of action for this very fast moving and volatile flu. We were really in the dark. As the days went on at work, we were ordered to put on more and more protective clothing to just keep everyone safe. My unit , as the top brainiacs decided, would be rehauled with special filters and we would become the Sars unit (we had 3 confirmed cases with a possible 4th in the hospital). We didn't know how many more we might have so it was decided to dedicate one unit for this. What made this the most idiotic decision was that we don't have anti-rooms on our unit. We can't handle this level of Isolation. In the meantime while they were retro fitting our unit with air exchangers, we were dispersed among the other 3 remaining ICU's. I was sent home for 10 days of quarantine because my ventilated patient tested positive for SARS and his ventilator didn't have a filter. Therefore, I too was exposed. This set off a chain reaction within my own family. I told my ex-husband, who was my fiancé at the time. He freaked out and called public health dept in his city, an hour from Toronto to say he was exposed to me and then exposed to his parents and that was was the risk I would kill all of them. YES, I SHOULD NOT HAVE MARRIED HIM BASED ON HIS STUPIDITY. But then he apologized. I was scared for myself and had no contact physically with anyone. My family brought me food to my apartment, knocked on the door, and left. I didn't see them. My superintendent was an idiot and caused fear and needless panic within the building. I later dealt with this breach in my privacy. SO…not only was this bad enough…but my uncle, who was like a 2nd father to me, was in an ICU himself getting dialysis. He was dying. And in fact, he did die 2 days before I came off quarantine. THEN…my manager calls and says that once I got back to work I was to report to the Sars Team. I had been picked to be on this team. If I refused, I would lose my job. SO…I dealt with everyone, my own health, my uncles funeral, MULTIPLE questions from family and friends to explain what was going on. I couldn't explain anything, I had no idea myself. Information, procedures, thoughts…changed so often it was mind boggling. At one point the hospital said it was ok for all us nurses on my unit to go home in cabs wearing our ventilator masks and isolation gowns. Ya..this went over really well with the taxi drivers. NOT. It was sheer craziness. Training started, 2 days of fittings, and checklists etc to get ready to take care of the Sars patients in the ICU. I had 2 layers of a hazmat suit on. Our hoods looked like KKK ones but in blue. Our goggles got fogged up the second we got in the room. To fix this issue, we had to smear soap on the inside to prevent fogging. DIdnt work but hospital said..do it anyway. We were feeling around in dark rooms and unable to really do much cause most of us were passing out from the heat of those rubber suits, the boots and the masks, hoods we had to wear. There were pads on the floor soaked with bleach we had to step on…was like Hop Scotch. In the end…the 3 patients we had died, 1 lived…. Life got back to normal but very slowly. Procedures and policies were changed. The government pointed fingers at the medical staff, the medical staff pointed the fingers at the government. Each not wanting to take any responsibility for how the pandemic was handled. I have pics of me in my hideous costume. I think they are on floppy discs now, its been so long ago. I HOPE we will be able to contain it. I really do.

I say it again, think twice about getting the flu shot. If you oppose it for yourself, think of those in your life you should protect. I get one every year even though for a couple weeks Im sick. I get over it and move on.

Just be safe.

[Wesley Crusher]

I haven't had a flu shot in 10 years. Should I start now?

[vitalsignsrn]

Wes..just keep an ear out for the stats of where you live. I think California might have some cases. I was just googling the U.S… If its in your area, I would think hard about it. Otherwise, if you haven't had one in 10yrs and your area is low risk, you most likely are ok..

[masterserg]

I have heard of flu deaths in Dallas just now.

[vitalsignsrn]

There are SO many hidden diseases out there. We were shocked back in 2003 that we hadn't heard of this before or in fact, been dealt with something far more severe. All it took in 2003 was 1 elderly woman to bring Sars back from China..thats ALL IT TOOK. Crazy.

Im not here to tell you what to do or give advice. Just listen to what is going on around your community and if you think you need the shot, go get one. If you need to talk to the clinic or your doctor/physicians assistant or nurse practitioner, then do it. Just keep yourself safe. :-)

[codecow]

At this point I have been getting them every year. I haven't had the flu since I was a child but now that we have decent yearly vaccines I see no reason to skip the shot.

[zama]

Global Pandemic is my greatest fear for our future, particularly one with a long gestation period. Having seen some of the stories on the plague/back death etc it is really scary, and while most things in life have advanced a mile from 100 let alone 700 years ago, our global ability to constrain killer virus is lower than ever. Modern aviation and a larger more mobile middle and lower classes suggest there would be no border means to stop diseases. Add in the decreasing number of antibiotics that could protect us and it gets scary.

Judy having watched a show on the 80's this week, it was horrific to see the biased attitude we all had to AIDS patients even children that were victims of blood transfusions etc. Sadly in those days those patients did die, the disease was a death sentence. Your story suggests Bird Flu was much the same even to family in Canada. I do remember at the time thinking how scary this was for Toronto, a mate from here in Australia was quarantined on his return to Australia by his work. I used to sweat a little (not a good choice) when travelling through Asia and China at the time and passing through the temperature stations. The fear of being pulled from a line and quarantined still scares me.

Lets hope this and other horrible diseases don't come back to visit, but the odds are unlikely, we must see it early and find solutions. Thank for your post one of the most compelling in the years I have followed TRF.

[bayerische]

I honestly think the media is blowing things out of proportion.

I haven't heard about the Sars virus to be active over here now. However, when put into proportion deaths caused by "regular" flu compared to the different "media hysteria" flu viruses the regular flu is a winner by miles and miles.

The latest hysteria was the swine-flu, massive amounts of people took the UNTESTED vaccine. Now many of these people are living with the side-effects. And... Completely unnecessary.

[GradyPhilpott]

I have been taking flu shots for many years now, thanks to the VA and in some years, my employers.

Some years back there was a vaccine shortage and I was in an age group at the time that was encouraged to bypass the shot, so that the very young and the elderly could have access, as they were the most vulnerable.

The president was in that age group and said that he would forgo that year's shot, so, I followed suit.

I had for a long time considered not getting the flu shot, because it seemed that every year, several days after getting the shot, I would get sick.

I know that you can't get the flu from the vaccine, but the correlation was such that I thought, if I'm going to get sick anyway, what difference does it make?

Well, the year I didn't get the shot, I got a full-blown case of the flu and as I had been getting flu shots for so long, I guess I had forgotten just how bad the flu can be. I mean, I knew it could be fatal to some, but of course, I wasn't in that group.

Well, the fact is that I was sicker than I had been, possibly, in my lifetime and it became very clear that the flu could kill me and that I wasn't special by any means.

It's funny that since I've retired, I haven't yet gotten sick right after having gotten the flu shot.

I have been sick, but that correlation is not nearly as strong as it once was and insofar as I now know beyond a shadow of a doubt how serious the flu can be, I have sworn that I'll never miss another one.

[Laszlo]

Originally Posted by bayerische

I honestly think the media is blowing things out of proportion.

I haven't heard about the Sars virus to be active over here now. However, when put into proportion deaths caused by "regular" flu compared to the different "media hysteria" flu viruses the regular flu is a winner by miles and miles.

The latest hysteria was the swine-flu, massive amounts of people took the UNTESTED vaccine. Now many of these people are living with the side-effects. And... Completely unnecessary.

You're 100% correct.

The annual human flu in the U.S. results in approximately 36,000 deaths and more than 200,000 hospitalizations each year.

...

Between November 2002 and July 2003, an outbreak of SARS in southern China caused an eventual 8,273 cases and 775 deaths reported in multiple countries with the majority of cases in Hong Kong.

[Lion]

Judy, Thanx for the "Heads Up", I get a Flu shot every year because I am in the high risk group due to my RA plus age. Take care and let's keep our fingers crossed that this does not turn into a major Pandemic!!!

[Demosthene]

Originally Posted by Laszlo

You're 100% correct.

The annual human flu in the U.S. results in approximately 36,000 deaths and more than 200,000 hospitalizations each year.

The impact wasn't the number of deaths it was the age bracket.

[Laszlo]

Originally Posted by Demosthene

The impact wasn't the number of deaths it was the age bracket.

Fascinating. And frightening.

[Old Expat Beast]

Originally Posted by Laszlo

You're 100% correct.

The annual human flu in the U.S. results in approximately 36,000 deaths and more than 200,000 hospitalizations each year.

...

Between November 2002 and July 2003, an outbreak of SARS in southern China caused an eventual 8,273 cases and 775 deaths reported in multiple countries with the majority of cases in Hong Kong.

Exactly 299 died here in HK during SARS. That's about 10% of the annual number estimated to die from pollution-related illness.

[vitalsignsrn]

Yes, the regular old generic flu will kill you, especially if you are elderly and /or have multiple pre-existing conditions. Take the flu shot, don't take it. Rationalize it however you want. I don't want to take the risk to my family and I take it even at the cost of my own illness.

You can read a medical journal and you can watch CNN or another show. The problem with my story. It was real. The fear was real, the anxiety was real, the pandemonium and flying by the seat of our pants to try to make things better, was real. If it happened once, it can happen again. Don't get too comfortable. Im not a person of doom or the grim reaper…but I live by the words I heard back in 2003 when we declared SARS completely gone. "If it could happen once, it can happen again, be aware"…And we do. We have many on isolation precautions, most times without necessity and once their swabs come back negative, thats when we can relax and breath a bit. ** big sigh ** I really really hope this comes to nothing…and is contained. I hope too, its just overblown. BUT, we don't know. So we are in full isolation mode. Its fact…not fiction.

Adam, I don't want to get into how many #'s were killed in China or Hong Kong. The Chinese government hid the exact #'s from WHO and didn't report it until the # of deaths and hospital admissions became so great, it was obvious something was wrong. The government apologized for not reporting sooner what they didn't know. Sadly…they knew…but they were trying to contain their own mess, one they had no idea what was causing it. But had they moved faster, who knows if that a woman would have gotten on that plane for Toronto. Anyway…I hope governments have learned to report anything suspicious.

Moving foreword…:-)

[Laszlo]

I thought the Swine Flu was back for another round. At least that's what I read two weeks ago. I can't keep up with the variants. Now that you've scared the crap out of me... I'm running out and getting my flu shot tomorrow!

[vitalsignsrn]

Let me tell you how petrified I was to know that my own patient I had cared for for 2 shifts had tested positive. I had to to mouth care on him with tooth brush, and foam wedges with 3" sticks on them. Meaning, I had to get quite close to his mouth. Ventilator had no filter then (became norm after, but not before SARS). So with the man coughing in my face as I did these simple procedures, was easy for me to inhale and ingest the tiny droplets expelled from his coughing into my respiratory system. Lucky for me…I am alive today. ;-)

Have a good day all… :-)

[vitalsignsrn]

Im not meaning to scare anyone!! Just pay attention to your surroundings. Some areas are low risk. You may not have to worry. The last thing I want is to cause fear and anger into anyone here. I just want you to be aware. :-)

[Laszlo]

Originally Posted by vitalsignsrn

Im not meaning to scare anyone!! Just pay attention to your surroundings. Some areas are low risk. You may not have to worry. The last thing I want is to cause fear and anger into anyone here. I just want you to be aware. :-)

Well, warnings are good. Im not scared. A flu shot won't kill me. I forgot to get one this year and my wife is pissed. I have a four-year-old and should be more responsible. Although I went most of my life without getting a flu shot each year... I only started after my son's birth. But this year, bad Dad.

[cedargrove]

My wife's job relates to 'infectious diseases' so she gets a shot early every year, and makes sure we get ours too.

The one year we missed our shots, my kids and I all got H1N1. It got pretty bad for my two year old daughter who was hospitalized as a result.

We don't forget our shots anymore.

[2careless]

Hmm, thanks for the heads up Judy. I'll be visiting HK in March... time to get a shot...

[anilzat]

Good information, is this like the epidemic of the 1920's. That was influenza also.

[subtona]

Flu shots are man made, mistakes happen, budget concerns, foul play, not going to voluntarily subject myself to possible human error or worse...jmho

Mosquitos are likely a bigger concern as Dengue fever has been making its way around the world quite efficiently.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dengue_fever

[anilzat]

Originally Posted by subtona

Flu shots are man made, mistakes happen, budget concerns, foul play, not going to voluntarily subject myself to possible human error or worse...jmho

Mosquitos are likely a bigger concern as Dengue fever has been making its way around the world quite efficiently.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dengue_fever

Now that sounds like a conspire theory to me.

[bayerische]

Originally Posted by subtona

Flu shots are man made, mistakes happen, budget concerns, foul play, not going to voluntarily subject myself to possible human error or worse...jmho

Mosquitos are likely a bigger concern as Dengue fever has been making its way around the world quite efficiently.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dengue_fever

I've been spending a lot of time in Thailand where Dengue fever is alive and active. Have I been afraid? No.

I can much more easily get hit by a car or truck while there than a mosquito carrying dengue.

My cousin who lives in Thailand had Dengue fever about a year ago, she came out fine. But that's not to say it's a BA fever!

[bayerische]

Originally Posted by Demosthene

The impact wasn't the number of deaths it was the age bracket.

How many confirmed deaths due to H1N1 in the US (2009)?

[subtona]

Originally Posted by anilzat

Now that sounds like a conspire theory to me.

i have been known to partake of some conspiracy theory… i have also had many phone calls over the last year with apologies after snowden shed light on business as usual practice in the USA. So you can certainly take what you would away, but i have trouble trusting a mechanic with my car, not fan of elective introduction of injections into my system.

Originally Posted by bayerische

I've been spending a lot of time in Thailand where Dengue fever is alive and active. Have I been afraid? No.

I can much more easily get hit by a car or truck while there than a mosquito carrying dengue.

My cousin who lives in Thailand had Dengue fever about a year ago, she came out fine. But that's not to say it's a BA fever!

its not the first bite of the Dengue that gets you, it is if you get bit by a mosquito carrying a different strain (there are 4 types), i have read it is at the top of the list in health concerns in poorer countries.

everything i know on Dengue fever found here, i found it fascinating to say the least:
http://www.ted.com/talks/hadyn_parry...t_disease.html

[bayerische]

Originally Posted by subtona

i have been known to partake of some conspiracy theory… i have also had many phone calls over the last year with apologies after snowden shed light on business as usual practice in the USA. So you can certainly take what you would away, but i have trouble trusting a mechanic with my car, not fan of elective introduction of injections into my system.






its not the first bite of the Dengue that gets you, it is if you get bit by a mosquito carrying a second strain, i have read it is at the top of the list in health concerns in poorer countries.

everything i know on Dengue fever found here, i found it fascinating to say the least:
http://www.ted.com/talks/hadyn_parry...t_disease.html

All I know is that I've heard, we nordics have a very strong immune system to fever-type of viruses (we get them a lot) and thus are more likely to come out of dengue-type viruses alive.

I'm not a doctor, and I don't know, but I've heard this. In Finland I don't know anyone who get's regular flu-shots. I do know a few who got the UNTESTED swine-flu vaccine.

[Old Expat Beast]

Originally Posted by 2careless

Hmm, thanks for the heads up Judy. I'll be visiting HK in March... time to get a shot...

Seriously? Go for it if you want, of course, but I live in HK and I won't be getting a shot, and neither will anyone I know, I'm sure.

[anilzat]

Originally Posted by subtona

i have been known to partake of some conspiracy theory… i have also had many phone calls over the last year with apologies after snowden shed light on business as usual practice in the USA. So you can certainly take what you would away, but i have trouble trusting a mechanic with my car, not fan of elective introduction of injections into my system.






its not the first bite of the Dengue that gets you, it is if you get bit by a mosquito carrying a different strain (there are 4 types), i have read it is at the top of the list in health concerns in poorer countries.

everything i know on Dengue fever found here, i found it fascinating to say the least:
http://www.ted.com/talks/hadyn_parry...t_disease.html

Interesting to read.