Papers count or not?

[Pyclah]

I was recently speaking To a fellow watch fanatic and he seems to think that the punched guarantee papers that some have with their vintage watched do not add much value. I thought those papers increase the watch value quiet a bit. Any opinions?

[Daytonaman799]

I don't think it adds a ton but it certainly is a plus. Personally I really prefer a watch with all the goodies rather than one without. For certain watches, like COMEXes it actually matters a lot.

[azguy]

I don't know about you but I don't wear papers, buy the best watch you can find and don't worry about the extra's IMHO

[golf51]

x2

[joe100]

Not including comex (which is insane, but it is what it is), papers are just papers.

The only time it matters, and not to me 'cause I don't like them, is with the co-branded dials. Ie Hermes, Cartier, Tiffany. Papers and sales receipt make all the difference

[jedly1]

wether and individual likes papers or see value in them or not is personal taste ..

as for real world market effect...punched papers add anything from 20-50% for most sports models to the price, as there are many collectors who wont buy a watch without them and are happy to pay a premium for a watch that is in effect rarer with them as so many have lost them.

[Old Expat Beast]

Originally Posted by jedly1

wether and individual likes papers or see value in them or not is personal taste ..

as for real world market effect...punched papers add anything from 20-50% for most sports models to the price, as there are many collectors who wont buy a watch without them and are happy to pay a premium for a watch that is in effect rarer with them as so many have lost them.

Exactly. It's personal. For me, papers make the watch more interesting, especially the older ones with the buyer's name on.

I recently picked up a 1960s DJ with the box, papers, accessories and some correspondence between Rolex in Geneva and original owner. With this I was able to loosely trace his life from a US Air Base in Spain (where the watch was purchased), to Berlin, to New York, and California. I also found out a whole lot about him through Google. He led an interesting life. He's passed away now, so it doesn't really matter, and I'd never share his name.

Anyway, to me this makes the watch a lot more interesting than if I had just picked one up loose from a pawn shop or whatever. I take a pride in (continued) ownership that I wouldn't do otherwise, did I not know something about the previous owner. It really doesn't matter that I "can't wear the papers".

Anyway, yes, here in Hong Kong papers will add anywhere from about 10 to 20 percent to a watch's price. More if it's a really collectible vintage.

[Michael M.]

For me the quality, condition, and originality of the watch is first and foremost. Original papers, boxes, and accessories are simply a nice bonus. "Icing on the cake"

[omitohud]

I would pay extra for papers but not much, unless it's a special watch like the mentioned comex or milsub (of course if I can afford one).


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[The_Walrus]

RSC papers are what I would prefer over punched papers.
This way you know you have a watch that is fitted with all original Rolex parts.

[Darlinboy]

The first and foremost factor of the value of any particular reference is the condition of of the watch.

Beyond that, the market does currently offer a premium for examples with box and papers. If that's important to you, you can pay that premium, if not, look for one without full kit.

[1675-David]

Papers are a bonus and nothing I would be willing to pay a premium for. I've always been of the opinion that papers are a lot easier to fake than a dial or a case, and there are some very good fake dials floating around.

Bear in mind that banknotes were being copied by criminals on color printers in the 90's until the banks were forced to up the ante and make there notes copier proof. A good set of vintage papers don't have all the inbuilt safeguards of a €50 note and can be worth a lot more....

[Swearengen]

I agree. I have become a little more suspicious of vintage papers unless there is a good line back to the original purchaser.

Originally Posted by 1675-David

Papers are a bonus and nothing I would be willing to pay a premium for. I've always been of the opinion that papers are a lot easier to fake than a dial or a case, and there are some very good fake dials floating around.

Bear in mind that banknotes were being copied by criminals on color printers in the 90's until the banks were forced to up the ante and make there notes copier proof. A good set of vintage papers don't have all the inbuilt safeguards of a €50 note and can be worth a lot more....

[Pyclah]

I still believe original box and papers make a difference in the value of the watch. When shopping around anything with original B&P ups the price and desire ability quiet a bit from what I've seen

[brandrea]

I just purchased a birth year Submariner, one of my trails! Unfortunately the watch did not have papers, but it was a one owner watch, and it's kinda neat to know the story behind it and who the man was.

[springer]

Complete sets are drying up fast. If you prefer the complete set on vintage Rolex, you will pay a premium, just as you would for any other old, vintage collectable. A 50% premium for a complete set does not seem too far from the norm.

[Jetkopite]

For sure B & P are the icing on the cake and I for one have been looking around for a nice RED with B & P and found that most which did have a supposed full set where not really full set but one that has been put together by the seller buying bits and pieces and saying its a full set.. Is that really a full set??

Ive also noticed that a full set the watch isnt that great even though its has all the bits to say its a full set. I would rather have a TOP watch with NO B & P rather than a so so watch with full set, after all I want to wear the watch look at it and enjoy it not wear the papers.
Genuine full set with an awesome watch is a rarity at the moment, would be nice but not essential in my opinion.

[NukeMan]

Originally Posted by springer

Complete sets are drying up fast. If you prefer the complete set on vintage Rolex, you will pay a premium, just as you would for any other old, vintage collectable. A 50% premium for a complete set does not seem too far from the norm.

X2!

[Tudor66]

Originally Posted by Jetkopite

For sure B & P are the icing on the cake and I for one have been looking around for a nice RED with B & P and found that most which did have a supposed full set ......

Agreed on all points Andy, It didn't realize that my watch was that rare until others on TRF kept reminding me... You can't wear papers, but papers will help you if and when you sell...

[steptoe]

Top end of the market wants B&P, and are willing to pay the extra premium.

If you don't want them, than that's also fine..

[Im Lauf der Zeit]

Condition is paramount. Papers--and box, accessories, et cetera--won't make a bad watch good, but make a good watch great.

[Vincent65]

Originally Posted by Im Lauf der Zeit

Condition is paramount. Papers--and box, accessories, et cetera--won't make a bad watch good, but make a good watch great.

well said

[1675-David]

Originally Posted by Im Lauf der Zeit

Condition is paramount. Papers--and box, accessories, et cetera--won't make a bad watch good, but make a good watch great.

That hits the nail pretty much on the head...

[mluther]

Originally Posted by Vincent65

well said

X2

[GeoGio Greece]

B & P IMO add value. They show that the owner showed an extra care and kept them. This translates to "extra care and love" which for sure reflects on the condition of the watch itself.

I always keep the B & P of all my watches, all purchased new, so I apreciate a full set, not to say that I expect a full set from the others as well.

In my area and experience , a watch with no B & P may be stolen, so you run a risk by getting one as such.

[EEParker]

Originally Posted by Old Expat Beast

Exactly. It's personal. For me, papers make the watch more interesting, especially the older ones with the buyer's name on.

I recently picked up a 1960s DJ with the box, papers, accessories and some correspondence between Rolex in Geneva and original owner. With this I was able to loosely trace his life from a US Air Base in Spain (where the watch was purchased), to Berlin, to New York, and California. I also found out a whole lot about him through Google. He led an interesting life. He's passed away now, so it doesn't really matter, and I'd never share his name.

Anyway, to me this makes the watch a lot more interesting than if I had just picked one up loose from a pawn shop or whatever. I take a pride in (continued) ownership that I wouldn't do otherwise, did I not know something about the previous owner. It really doesn't matter that I "can't wear the papers".

Anyway, yes, here in Hong Kong papers will add anywhere from about 10 to 20 percent to a watch's price. More if it's a really collectible vintage.

That's very cool. I'd love to know the history of my watches.

[colpol]

Originally Posted by omitohud

I would pay extra for papers but not much, unless it's a special watch like the mentioned comex or milsub (of course if I can afford one).


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agree. I bought a great 1680 from one of the most reputable sellers out there. Paid premium for the watch which imho is the best I could get. Papers would have just been an extra cost & have sat in a drawer.

I'll get a service at some point over next few years & those papers will be my proof that watch genuine etc if (hopefully never) I ever sell

[springer]

Originally Posted by The_Walrus

RSC papers are what I would prefer over punched papers.
This way you know you have a watch that is fitted with all original Rolex parts.

Many vintage watches that have found their way to the RSC will be found with visible service replacement parts rather than original parts.

[Kabayan]

For me, the watch is what really matter.
Paper and others are nice, but I would rather pay extra for better condition watch than all kind of papers.

Listen to your heart, if you love it, get it, wear it and enjoy it.

Cheers,

[Jetkopite]

Originally Posted by Kabayan

For me, the watch is what really matter.
Paper and others are nice, but I would rather pay extra for better condition watch than all kind of papers.

Listen to your heart, if you love it, get it, wear it and enjoy it.

Cheers,

I agree I would rather pay extra for an awesome watch and no B & P rather than extra for a very average watch with a full set...

Now an awesome watch with full set would be the cheery on the top BUT from what I have seen very very hard to find..