GMT Experts Help

[Sarko]

Hi guys I need some help.
The regular hand stack of the GMT from the bottom up is:

-HOURS
-GMT HAND
-MINUTES
-SECONDS

You see this with all the ceramic models and older 16710 models.

CERAMIC:
r3.jpg

16710:
r2.jpg

I also see old PEPSI models with GMT HAND on the bottom:

-GMT HAND
-HOURS
-MINUTES
-SECONDS

VINTAGE:
r1.jpg

Can someone tell me when Rolex made this transition?

[Alpino]

.

This modification occured with the introduction of the 3000 serie calibers, in our case the 3075 caliber of the 16750, followed by the 3085 in the 16760 the first Gmt2. It was in 1981 for 16750 and 1983 for 16760.

The idea was to facilitate future cercled index introduction without having a thicker caliber .

With the new caliber , hour hand passes between indexes , and Gmt hand passes over them.

ps: if i am unclear, sorry but English isn't my preferred langage

[Sarko]

Originally Posted by Alpino

.

This modification occured with the introduction of the 3000 serie calibers, in our case the 3075 caliber of the 16750, followed by the 3085 in the 16760 the first Gmt2. It was in 1981 for 16750 and 1983 for 16760.

The idea was to facilitate future cercled index introduction without having a thicker caliber .

With the new caliber , hour hand passes between indexes , and Gmt hand passes over them.

ps: if i am unclear, sorry but English isn't my preferred langage

So the 16750 in 81 and 16760 in 83 ware the first ones with the new hand stack. All older calibres had a GMT hand on the bottom?
Right?

[Racerdj]

Originally Posted by Alpino

.

This modification occured with the introduction of the 3000 serie calibers, in our case the 3075 caliber of the 16750, followed by the 3085 in the 16760 the first Gmt2. It was in 1981 for 16750 and 1983 for 16760.

The idea was to facilitate future cercled index introduction without having a thicker caliber .

With the new caliber , hour hand passes between indexes , and Gmt hand passes over them.

ps: if i am unclear, sorry but English isn't my preferred langage

Thank you for the explanation.

[Alpino]

Originally Posted by Sarko

So the 16750 in 81 and 16760 in 83 ware the first ones with the new hand stack. All older calibres had a GMT hand on the bottom?
Right?

Right. It was the case with 1036/1066gmt (in 6542) and 1565/1575gmt calibers (in 1675).

[AK797]

This is really useful info as the correct hand stack is one of the best ways of avoiding buying a fake.

[Watchvirgin]

Great thread!!

STICKY!!!

[Watchvirgin]

Alpino, Great info....AGAIN

[crew]

Good question and great answer!

[mike]

Nicely put A.

A great way to tell slow beat from fast.

[Sarko]

Originally Posted by AK797

This is really useful info as the correct hand stack is one of the best ways of avoiding buying a fake.

That is indeed the reason why I am asking this question in the first place. All modern fake's (high end or bad ones) you can recognize due to the wrong hand stack. Due to the calibre used in the fakes they cannot mimic this aspect!

[Sarko]

Originally Posted by Alpino

.

This modification occured with the introduction of the 3000 serie calibers, in our case the 3075 caliber of the 16750, followed by the 3085 in the 16760 the first Gmt2. It was in 1981 for 16750 and 1983 for 16760.

The idea was to facilitate future cercled index introduction without having a thicker caliber .

With the new caliber , hour hand passes between indexes , and Gmt hand passes over them.

ps: if i am unclear, sorry but English isn't my preferred langage

Thank you for sharing the knowledge!

[tkerrmd]

Originally Posted by Sarko

That is indeed the reason why I am asking this question in the first place. All modern fake's (high end or bad ones) you can recognize due to the wrong hand stack. Due to the calibre used in the fakes they cannot mimic this aspect!

good info!!

[Sarko]

Originally Posted by tkerrmd

good info!!

There are some more give aways but this one is the most important one.

They also often mess up:
- Cyclops (lack of AR coating and right magnification)
- Base of the hands is to wide.

This next picture is of the guy I busted (@dehorlogeman). BLNR and BLRO are both fake (high end replica). All the watches on his page are fake BTW aswell as his clotches, belts, jewels, etc.. Hi admitit at the end.

See how the handbase is way to wide, no AR coating, datewheel not centered, and the GMT hand on the bottom! Now compare it to your GMT's.

[shou.biao.kuang]

Originally Posted by Alpino

.

This modification occured with the introduction of the 3000 serie calibers, in our case the 3075 caliber of the 16750, followed by the 3085 in the 16760 the first Gmt2. It was in 1981 for 16750 and 1983 for 16760.

The idea was to facilitate future cercled index introduction without having a thicker caliber .

With the new caliber , hour hand passes between indexes , and Gmt hand passes over them.

ps: if i am unclear, sorry but English isn't my preferred langage

Great and useful info Alpino.... Read this before somewhere but lost the thread and am so glad you provided these info

[shou.biao.kuang]

Originally Posted by mike

Nicely put A.

A great way to tell slow beat from fast.

Hi Mike,

What do you mean by this? meaning the stacking of the hands show the slow from the fast beat?

Thanks in advance...

[SeaAndSky]

Thanks Sarko and Alpino. I like these threads that increase my knowledge.

[MP5]

Originally Posted by AK797

This is really useful info as the correct hand stack is one of the best ways of avoiding buying a fake.

Nope, they have had rigged up movements to accommodate proper hands stack for years. It's unreliable but if your idea is to rip off,i guess you don't care about that

[MP5]

Originally Posted by tkerrmd

good info!!

It's not, please let's not let this become repeated knowledge some will use it and get taken

[AK797]

Originally Posted by MP5

Nope, they have had rigged up movements to accommodate proper hands stack for years. It's unreliable but if your idea is to rip off,i guess you don't care about that

I said one not the only one, obviously a lot of research must be done first.

[Zoran]

Originally Posted by Sarko

This next picture is of the guy I busted (@dehorlogeman). BLNR and BLRO are both fake (high end replica). All the watches on his page are fake BTW aswell as his clotches, belts, jewels, etc.. Hi admitit at the end.

Sarko The Buster --- AKA The Beard ---
Well done my friend!

Thanks for the info guys!

[Sarko]

Originally Posted by MP5

It's not, please let's not let this become repeated knowledge some will use it and get taken

I just read on the other forum that there is indeed a rigged movement which has the right stack (not working well). Never came across this one!!!!!

Anyway, the most replica's are like the ones I saw at dehorlogeman. So I think it is pretty good info to keep in the mind as well. I bet that even the fakes with rigged movements have their flaws like cyclops, fonts, etc..

Stating that this is not usefull or good information is just plain igrnorant. U also have the franken replica's which use real parts to make the watch looks authentic. So you can never be 100% sure without checking the watch. Will this information prevent you getting scammed 100%? No it will not. But it is information worth knowing IMHO!

[Sarko]

Originally Posted by Zoran

Sarko The Buster --- AKA The Beard ---
Well done my friend!

Thanks for the info guys!

[rollee1]

Excellent thread. Thanks

Please keep them coming

[mattmcmhn]

Originally Posted by mike

Nicely put A.

A great way to tell slow beat from fast.

I don't understand this, what are these pictures supposed to show?

[mike]

This might be better,

1575 movement,



3xxx,

[shou.biao.kuang]

Originally Posted by mattmcmhn

I don't understand this, what are these pictures supposed to show?

Mr Mike has got excellent GMT pieces on hand

Very very nice sets there...

[scott k]

I have a GMT 16700. It is an A series made in 1999.. On this model you can not move the GMT hand independently , it is above the the hour hand. The dial says Swiss