Should I buy a Rolex without a certificate?

[Intheshed]

Hi,
I have found a 14060M on Chrono24. The dealer is in Frankfurt, has a shop and history on Chrono24 back to 2010; open source research indicates that he does actually exist! However, I received an email from him as follows:

The clock has been tested and serviced, it is technically and optically in very good condition. (The clock had a service to our watchmaker)
Original Rolex box is available, the Rolex certificate does not exist anymore.
If you decide to buy the clock, you will get our house certificate (Certificate of Authenticity) that guarantees you a 1 year warranty.

So, should I buy without the original certificate?

[Cezinho]

Sure

[MonBK]

Why not?

[padi56]

Originally Posted by Intheshed

Hi,
I have found a 14060M on Chrono24. The dealer is in Frankfurt, has a shop and history on Chrono24 back to 2010; open source research indicates that he does actually exist! However, I received an email from him as follows:

The clock has been tested and serviced, it is technically and optically in very good condition. (The clock had a service to our watchmaker)
Original Rolex box is available, the Rolex certificate does not exist anymore.
If you decide to buy the clock, you will get our house certificate (Certificate of Authenticity) that guarantees you a 1 year warranty.

So, should I buy without the original certificate?

Cannot see why not the so called certificate is just now a outdated warranty, and does not prove authenticity of any watch as these bits of paper are the easiest to fake.

[Britexpat76]

Originally Posted by padi56

Cannot see why not the so called certificate is just now a outdated warranty, and does not prove authenticity of any watch as these bits of paper are the easiest to fake.

This.

[sirduncs]

if it will be an investment and a watch that will stay in the safe most of the time, then i can see why you'd want papers.

however, i was in a similar situation to you - i found a great watch which came with box and the dealer's 2 year warranty - but not the original rolex papers.

i bought the watch to wear and use, not sit someplace gathering dust, so the absence of papers didn't trouble me - i got a 2 year warranty anyway, and the watch is 100% genuine, so happy days.

duncs

[SeaDweller50]

As long as the seller has shown due diligence and confirmed the watch is not on any prescribed stolen list then it should be fine.

[brandrea]

Originally Posted by padi56

Cannot see why not the so called certificate is just now a outdated warranty, and does not prove authenticity of any watch as these bits of paper are the easiest to fake.

X2

[watchwatcher]

Great advice above. Absolutely.

[crowncollection]

Yes why not

[Intheshed]

Brilliant, I just wanted to put my mind at rest, but take the point that certificate would easier to fake than the rest. And yes, this is going to be worn not tucked away in a safe.

Originally Posted by Airborne

As long as the seller has shown due diligence and confirmed the watch is not on any prescribed stolen list then it should be fine.

Airborne, nice avatar...PX4s?...does Rolex still have a register that serial numbers can be checked against?

[AK797]

Yes if you are sure of the seller, and then only use credit card or fly over, Frankfurt is just lovely this time of year

[engin33r]

Why not

[joe100]

Why not purchase from our trusted sellers here?

[braningan]

yes ..No probs

[77T]

I have done this many times and no problems thus far. A couple of things to mention: resale can be fiddly if prospective buyers aren't like-minded and have it double-checked by trusted certified watchmaker upon its arrival.

But if you're getting a price some hundreds below a full set and what trusted TRF sellers are asking, go for it. If not, why not use more local resources like TRF?

Whatever you choose is fine since its your money and your decision.

Then wear and enjoy! Show us your incoming and wristshot a asap


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[Sperry]

Lots of certificates get lost in the shuffle. I'd even skip the box if it would be cheaper, since my next Rolex purchase would probably never be resold.

[Onikage]

Aside from the possibility of being stolen the only other problem is if a watch left the factory in a different config. Rolex won't touch it if it used to be a two-tone for example. I've bought paperless before without any problems and don't place any value in box and papers aside from the two mentioned above. Horror stores like these are rare thankfully.

[Rolex addict]

I've read a lot of bad reviews and horror stories about Chrono24. Do your homework first!!!! For me, it's worth a little extra money for peace of mind. Check with sellers here on TRF (DavidSW, Oscar (bodybump), Tony (justrolexes), etc before doing anything.

[Afghanvet]

Just make sure it's authentic...

[johneh]

Originally Posted by Intheshed

does Rolex still have a register that serial numbers can be checked against?

I don't think they ever had this, but I could be wrong.

[77T]

Originally Posted by Intheshed

...does Rolex still have a register that serial numbers can be checked against?

Originally Posted by johneh

I don't think they ever had this, but I could be wrong.

Rolex does keep an "as built" list by serial number as well as a "reported stolen" list. Owners don't have direct access to it but ADs and RSC do.

These lists have different purposes. Firstly, to maintain originality of the watch as it was built - like bracelet, strap, dial, bezel, etc. The stolen list helps reunite owners with their property by not working on or accepting trade-ins of stolen watches. Rolex will notify authorities listed on the police report to help.


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[Intheshed]

Thanks everyone.

Would love to buy off the TRF forum but all of the 14060Ms that I have seen so far (and all of the recommended sellers) are located in the US. I might be getting my maths wrong but a $5000 dollar watch would cost a further $1000 in import duty to the UK.....obviously I would be happy to hear otherwise! I can buy a 14060M for around £500 cheaper in Europe than in the UK at the moment; I am assuming that the weak euro is helping with this ie the one on Chrono24 is £3000 whereas I am seeing nothing comparable in the UK for under £3500. If its a genuine watch then its a no-brainer!
The link is as follows if anyone would care to take a look...
http://www.chrono24.com/en/rolex/sub...id3266274.htm?

[sirduncs]

Personally I'd be tempted to look at a UK seller. The hassle of dealing with someone in the U.S., the transit/shipping, potential tax implications....yeugh. Although on the other end of the country to you, I'd recommend Miltons. They have good stock and know their watches. You can also wire payment through to them. Or if you saw a watch that you liked in my neck of the woods (Chester) I'd be happy to go and check it out for you, take pics etc.

I had great service from them and am happy to recommend them as I'd use them again. Just google Miltons of Chester.

duncs

[nick c]

If the price is right sure thing

[Intheshed]

Originally Posted by sirduncs

Personally I'd be tempted to look at a UK seller. The hassle of dealing with someone in the U.S., the transit/shipping, potential tax implications....yeugh. Although on the other end of the country to you, I'd recommend Miltons. They have good stock and know their watches. You can also wire payment through to them. Or if you saw a watch that you liked in my neck of the woods (Chester) I'd be happy to go and check it out for you, take pics etc.

I had great service from them and am happy to recommend them as I'd use them again. Just google Miltons of Chester.

duncs

Thanks for the offer Duncs, appreciated. I was in Chester for Christmas and did find it hard to walk past Miltons! I'll keep an eye on their site as well.

[SeaDweller50]

Originally Posted by Intheshed

Brilliant, I just wanted to put my mind at rest, but take the point that certificate would easier to fake than the rest. And yes, this is going to be worn not tucked away in a safe.


Airborne, nice avatar...PX4s?...does Rolex still have a register that serial numbers can be checked against?

LLP's (Low Level Parachute) my friend.

[aaron123]

I would be much more concerned with service history and the overall condition of the watch over the original warranty card. I have bought watches over the years both ways and never had a problem with one that didn't come with papers. I have always done a lot of research upfront to verify service history or ready to have it serviced right after I bought it.

[sirduncs]

of course once you buy it, and then get around to servicing time, provided the watch is authentic, get it serviced by rolex and you will get service papers back, which will be a plus if you had bought a watch without papers. ultimately not having papers reduces the price a little. the most important thing as the others have mentioned is that the watch is a good example and has some kind of service history.

another alternative is to consider purchasing from europe. i travel onto the continent frequently, Gassan of Holland are frequently mentioned on here because their prices are slightly discounted if you purchase from their outlets in Schiphol Airport, plus factor in a good exchange rate with the pound. i did some rough calculations with the exchange rate favourable vs the Euro at the moment, i think a new ceramic sub was coming in at circa £3.7k from them although the rates are chopping and changing, but it seemed the cheapest place to buy a new one at the moment.

duncs

[Intheshed]

Originally Posted by Airborne

LLP's (Low Level Parachute) my friend.

Ah yes! They came in just as I was leaving, although I did have to do a requal course at Brize using them.....a MUCH softer landing than the PX4 even at Weston On The Concrete!