Should I buy this -66 5513?

[moorflax]

Hi all!
I´m new ti this forum and have learned a lot already!
Currently my watchbox includes only a Seiko Marinemaster.
Yesterday i fell across att Rolex Submariner 5513 1.3 m series from 1966.
The seller insure me that theres only originalparts in the watch except the crown and bracelet.
I am not that sure.
What do you guys think?

[springer]

The box is counterfeit.

There is a complete website devoted to the 5513 Submariner. Go to the vintage section here, and on the first page, toward the top, you'll find a link to the site.

Personally, I would think 1.3 million is within the accepted range for the gilt dials.

[moorflax]

How can you see the box is counterfeit?
Is this really a gilt dial?
What do you guys think of the insert and the hands? Can it really be original?

[stmoore]

The crown and the insert have absolutely been replaced, but that's not what's bothing me.



1) the chamfers. on a 1.3 mil I'd expect something much more dramatic in the chamfer department. I have a 1.55 that's a very early meters first and the case looks nothing like that.



2) the dial. like John, I'd expect a different dial to be in that watch.

Should look like this

[TimeToGo]

Welcome to the Forum!

The box is fake as Springer said.
The watch should be a Gilt dial, this one is not.
If the seller told you everything is original, less the bracelet and crown.. then walk away.

Maybe he means it is all original "replaced" (service or later version) parts, which all appears to be.

[1675-David]

Need much better images, close up of the dial, back side and between the lugs to check out the engraving there, from what I see the case looks a bit chunky around the crown guards, my 67 sub (which I'm wearihgright now)has much more distinct chamfers and the crown itself looks a bit out of proportion, this could just be the picture, the result of an insensitive renovation or a dud case, the dial looks nice and the insert is not correct. To get a more accurate idea of what this watch is or isn't your going to need much better images to opinions from the real experts. A fake case is never a good start in my opinion!

[springer]

Originally Posted by moorflax

How can you see the box is counterfeit?
Is this really a gilt dial?
What do you guys think of the insert and the hands? Can it really be original?

Your inner box appears to be from the counterfeit version of the "marbleized" Rolex box set sold from around 1992 up until mid-2000 range. The inner box changed during the course of this run, with the later inner box having a cuff holder for the watch instead of the pillow.

This box set is the most counterfeited of all the Rolex box sets. The fake boxes always have the natural wood finish on the inner box unlike the finish on genuine boxes.

Below is a genuine box.

If you want more help, place some better photos here - to include photos of the accessories, the dial, the back of the crown guards, photos of the serial number and model number and anything else to help identify the watch.

[moorflax]

Really guys! Big thanks får all your input!
Some more pics if needed. I really got something to think about.
This is a fantastic forum!

[droptopman]

Agree with what others have stated. That serial would almost certainly have a gilt dial. Bevels/chamfers are off, service insert. Something about that case looks off. 66 5513 is my birth year Grail piece so spent a lot of time shopping for and examining them.

[themaninblack]

Amongst other things it's at least had an odd case polishing job, perhaps they are just bad photos? 1.3 puts it at 66/7 which can be a matte dial.

[moorflax]

Really guys! Big thanks!
My big issue was the dial, hands and the insert. Thru the years I guess it was polished and the chamfers got smaller and smaller.
I really got something to think about.
The price of this one is 6250$ (is it ok to show the price?)

[Tools]

Case back says early '64.

I think that this may be a frankenwatch made up of a bunch of parts..

[moorflax]

Originally Posted by Tools

Case back says early '64.

I think that this may be a frankenwatch made up of a bunch of parts..

It seems so

[1675-David]

I would walk away from that one...

[okthenor]

You really have nothing to think about. This is an easy pass. (trust these guys, they know their s*&*.

[moorflax]

I´ve decided to walk away from this one. And yes, you seem to know what your talking about.
Thank you guys for all the help!

Best regards
Mattias from Sweden

[Zoran]

I love happy endings
Good of you to inform here before you bought, saved you a lot of headache!

Pledging would be a great way to pay it back, so others can have a place to come to in the future as well
LOVE this forum

[moorflax]

Originally Posted by Zoran

I love happy endings
Good of you to inform here before you bought, saved you a lot of headache!

Pledging would be a great way to pay it back, so others can have a place to come to in the future as well
LOVE this forum

I was about to buy it but it didnt felt right for some reason. After I publish the pictures here there were no question about what to do!
Now the hunt is on for a nice 5513, or perhaps a 1680, again!
Please tell me if you want to sell or know anyone who is willing to sell.

[Nobody.Move]

@moorflax
Re: "I´ve decided to walk away from this one."
That was definitely the right decision. Be patient, become increasingly knowledgeable and enjoy the hunt. I'll also suggest that you'll need more $ than the cost of the Franken, if you want to buy a well preserved early 70s 5513 or a white text 1680, both of which are awesome watches and solid investments.

[Zoran]

Both the 5513 and 1680 are nice watches and easy to find.
This sticky has the vintage dealers spread out for you and will keep you busy for a few hours
http://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=180461

This was my first vintage..a 5513 as well

[Rameez-Q]

I am sure I know that watch, is it or was it advertised in the UK?

[BNA/LION]

I LUV the Vintage Rolex Guys here! You saved me when I bought a Lemon 5513 and I got my money back!

Always best to ask the TRF Vintage Experts before you buy!

[moorflax]

Originally Posted by Zoran

Both the 5513 and 1680 are nice watches and easy to find.
This sticky has the vintage dealers spread out for you and will keep you busy for a few hours
http://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=180461

This was my first vintage..a 5513 as well

I will check out sticky vintage dealer thread immeddiately! Thanks!

Totally love the patina in that watch!

[Rameez-Q]

Said watch is advertised here:

https://www.gumtree.com/p/watches/ro...re./1140515499

Buyers beware! I was sure I had seen this watch for sale before.

[The_Walrus]

A gilt dial would signify a Bart Simpson coronet.
This is a later meters first matte dial which would be out of range for 1.3m serial.
Glad to hear you walked away. Price is cheap for a reason

[Kingface66]

Originally Posted by The_Walrus

A gilt dial would signify a Bart Simpson coronet.
This is a later meters first matte dial which would be out of range for 1.3m serial.
Glad to hear you walked away. Price is cheap for a reason

A gilt dial CAN signify a Bart coronet. Mine is a gilt '66 137xxxx without being a Bart.

[The_Walrus]

Originally Posted by Kingface66

A gilt dial CAN signify a Bart coronet. Mine is a gilt '66 137xxxx without being a Bart.

Yes. Realised my mistake once posted.
Nice watch 👍

[Kingface66]

Originally Posted by The_Walrus

Yes. Realised my mistake once posted.
Nice watch 👍

Cheers, mate!