Could Buying Online Turn Out to Be A Stolen Watch?

[AlbertOC]

A few friends and I were talking recently and the question came up...how do we know that some of these watches being sold online are not stolen watches that have switched hands several times and being sold unknowingly by the seller? These could be watches being sold on eBay, craigslist, online 'gray market' sellers, etc.

There are tons of robberies happening throughout the country and where do these watches go? I could go online and buy something from a "trustworthy" and "reputable" online seller which again, they are selling not knowing that it was stolen, and I won't know until I send it in to Rolex for service in 10 years or so. Many of these websites do not give you the original warranty card for the watch and simply give you their own warranty. Same can be said for all these watches being sold online without papers...

In none of these robberies that you read about do you ever see any mention of the robbers also taking the Rolex warranty cards with them...therefore does the fact that a watch is being sold without the warranty open the possibility of it being stolen and you being out of a watch when you send it in for service several years from now?

[Roadblocked]

Just read this exact scenario on Reddit today. Guy bought one from someone online, sent it to Rolex for service in 2008. Rolex kept it

[Mr. K]

Yup without box and papers, increases the odds.

Also what if parts are swapped out? Worth getting it checked out for peace of mind.

Trusted sellers are good but still not always perfect. Recently I recall a watch was not right even unknown to the trusted seller. The forum weighed in and the trusted seller made good. Turned out well, but the buyer caught the issue.

[ref1655]

Originally Posted by Roadblocked

Rolex kept it

what happens in the event Rolex cannot locate the rightful (or original) owner? is there a statute of limitations for this procedure & what becomes of the watch?

[rolehex]

Originally Posted by Roadblocked

Just read this exact scenario on Reddit today. Guy bought one from someone online, sent it to Rolex for service in 2008. Rolex kept it

I always wonder what would happen in that scenario. If Rolex tries to find the "rightful" owner or not. And what if the owner was already paid out though insurance. Does he/she get the watch back too?

[sfc rick]

Originally Posted by rolehex

I always wonder what would happen in that scenario. If Rolex tries to find the "rightful" owner or not. And what if the owner was already paid out though insurance. Does he/she get the watch back too?

The owner no longer has any claim to the watch if paid off by insurance. The Insurance owns the watch and to recoup the loss of funds will sell off the recovered property.

[AK797]

It's a risk but you can ask the trusted sellers here to only sell you a watch they bought directly from the AD, no trade ins, and then even if it turned out later at service that the watch was stolen and the seller lied or misled, the trusted seller would refund you immediately. This forum provides the incentive for trusted sellers to do right by you. Without this public forum, even a trusted seller in a store could say buyer beware and refuse to refund you. Also take out insurance.

[roadkillrob]

Original warranty cards are missing all the time as are boxes. Obviously if you can get that stuff you may be safer, but the fake warranty cards are dead on these days, so how do you know the warranty card isn't a fake also and everything else is easy to get, box and manuals etc.

One thing that is helpful on a used watch is service paperwork, so you know Rolex has serviced it and had no issues with it and that type of paperwork is not faked at least as much and any receipts from where it was purchased, like reputable dealer or AD adds some confidence.

Unfortunately Rolex is not very helpful checking a serial until they have it in their possession, there are other things like this https://rolextracker.com/en/ you can put the serial in, but only works if the previous owner put their serial in there.

[rod727]

There are only a few places that I would buy online and all of them are well known here.....that being said my expectation is that if their were ever a question about the watch they would do the right thing

[77T]

Rolex doesn't investigate the matter - it is turned over to the authorities who took the original police report from the victim. This is one reason you see people masking serial numbers in their pictures - to lessen chance that a troll would file bogus theft reports.

[77T]

Originally Posted by AK797

It's a risk but you can ask the trusted sellers here to only sell you a watch they bought directly from the AD, no trade ins, and then even if it turned out later at service that the watch was stolen and the seller lied or misled, the trusted seller would refund you immediately. This forum provides the incentive for trusted sellers to do right by you. Without this public forum, even a trusted seller in a store could say buyer beware and refuse to refund you. Also take out insurance.

True - that fixes it for people buying modern models. Many of us also do vintage where the water is much muddier. Many Rolex watches go through estate sales, pawn brokers and others hands. Much harder...

In another thread earlier this week, a case of an eBay sale gone bad was discussed. It spurred me to check with my Rolex certified watchmaker (not AD, he's an indie watchmaker with Rolex parts Acct.)

Even he isn't privileged to see "the list". Apparently this issue only happens when Rolex itself talks possession of a watch for servicing. My AD said they just work on the watch that's brought in - they don't have the list at the shop.

[GB-man]

It's a risk no doubt. That's why I only buy from people I trust 100% and I only buy complete sets. (For modern of course)

[iliketime]

I suppose, unless you buy from AD, there are no guarantees. I had an ebay issue with my first rolex. I had bought from a pawn shop with the ebay storefront, and if I had checked with the forum before I purchased Id have saved myself some time and worry. they took it back no problem because of ebay protection and I then went with trusted seller here. I only buy complete sets, and steer clear just watch only. They can be totally legitimate for all I know, but its a risk.

I did have a patient come into the clinic and he told me that he unknowingly bought a stolen rolex at an estate auction once. The serial had been filed off and he only found out when he took it for servicing at his watchmaker.

[azguy]

Never mind on-line, could happen with a face-to-face transaction too. If you're the skittish type buy from an AD. If not, stick with trusted and known on-line sellers and they'll make good if the have been duped and past along a bad watch

[Micha]

good thread, would an AD have access to Rolex' database of stolen watches?

[Black Bay Dan]

AD's sell used watches too so how do they know for sure a watch they take in as a part exchange has not been stolen? No guarantees in life.

Dan

[AlbertOC]

Originally Posted by Air King Dan

AD's sell used watches too so how do they know for sure a watch they take in as a part exchange has not been stolen? No guarantees in life.

Dan

This is a good question. If the AD simply buys watches outright then there is no guarantee since l the person selling the stolen watch to them just gets a payout and leaves.
I would assume that a person with a stolen watch would not trade-in to a store and pay out of pocket for a more expensive watch since that would defeat the purpose and eat into the "profit" of selling a stolen watch. Also, I'd think there's more information that's given when you buy a watch from an AD...such as credit cards and/or IDs and such which might not be the case if you just sell a watch for cash.

[trebor]

Most jurisdictions have rules requiring dealers in used or pre-owned objects to file Police Reports upon purchasing of such property.
This usually has the property required to be held for at least 10 or more working days for the lost/stolen property records to be searched.
Violators are severely punished for failure to comply.

[ocwatching]

my AD is required to keep trade ins for a certain period of time...before resale..
just to protect themselves and potential buyer

[Steve36Efc]

Always a possibility, up to now all mine have come via an AD, I thought of picking up a SUBC LV from a grey dealer but due to the price they are currently fetching for the sake a couple of hundred quid stuck with the AD. Complete peace of mind.

[jackass266]

If I'm not mistaken our Dutch law says that if I buy a watch at a reasonable market value not stolen goods value, and the sale is not suspicious where I could expect the watch to be stolen, I become the rightfull owner upon buying the watch.

You can read about stories where the original owner didn't get his stolen watch back because of this.

My question now is, if in the situation above I become the rightfull owner, isn't it wrong for Rolex to not return my property when I bring in my Rolex and discover it been stolen?
And what will happen the next time I bring it in for service? Will they keep it again?

[bondtoys]

Originally Posted by jackass266

If I'm not mistaken our Dutch law says that if I buy a watch at a reasonable market value not stolen goods value, and the sale is not suspicious where I could expect the watch to be stolen, I become the rightfull owner upon buying the watch.

You are wrong.

You can't obtain ownership of a stolen item "Good faith" - what you imply or not)

And Rolex does not keep a stolen watch. They have 2 parties claiming ownership in that case and hey ask both parties to find an agreement and then return to the rightful owner - or the authorities.

[fskywalker]

Nice thread!

[Dusko.Popov]

Originally Posted by bondtoys

You are wrong.

You can't obtain ownership of a stolen item "Good faith" - what you imply or not)

And Rolex does not keep a stolen watch. They have 2 parties claiming ownership in that case and hey ask both parties to find an agreement and then return to the rightful owner - or the authorities.

You can in the United States. Some criteria apply but if you are a bona fide purchaser in what is considered the 'ordinary course of business' then that can (and probably 'will') absolutely create that new ownership (and title) right. The theory being that the original owner was in a better position to stop the theft than the new purchaser was in a position to know that a theft occurred assuming that the transaction was ordinarily commercial.

[HorologyK]

I buy all mine from an AD. Could care less about savings, I will take piece of mind !

[os993]

Which is why I bought my first and only Rolex from an AD. Worth the extra few bucks and knowing for sure about the watch.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[descartes]

Originally Posted by Dusko.Popov

You can in the United States. Some criteria apply but if you are a bona fide purchaser in what is considered the 'ordinary course of business' then that can (and probably 'will') absolutely create that new ownership (and title) right. The theory being that the original owner was in a better position to stop the theft than the new purchaser was in a position to know that a theft occurred assuming that the transaction was ordinarily commercial.

This is correct, provided you buy from a party that typically deals in such goods (which means an AD, used or gray market dealer etc.).

[Boaters]

You always buy the seller first great words to live by. AD's or Trusted Sellers or even friends that you know and trust.