Is There A Vintage Explorer Expert in The House?

[trackpad]

Just puzzling over these two vintage Explorers... from the same serial number range pegged to 1974.

But there are obvious differences in the design and typography of the dials. They cannot both be original dials, can they?

Here are links to the full listings. Comments or observations from those experienced with this reference would be very welcome.

a)
http://www.network54.com/Forum/20767...6quot%3B+Owner

b)
http://www.network54.com/Forum/20767...er+1+Ref-+1016


Thanks as always.

[speedolex]

I have purchased 2 1016's and am no expert but I think both watches and dials are authentic. One is showing aged patina on the lumed hour markers and one looks like a brighter and whiter service dial. One has a larger coronet at the 12 than the other.

What strikes me the most is how the one with box and papers is $10,000 more than the other. That's not right. If I were you I'd buy the less expensive one from Jacek who is well known in these parts.

Good luck. 1016's are fantastic watches. Definitely get one.

[springer]

Originally Posted by speedolex

I have purchased 2 1016's and am no expert but I think both watches and dials are authentic. One is showing aged patina on the lumed hour markers and one looks like a brighter and whiter service dial. One has a larger coronet at the 12 than the other.

What strikes me the most is how the one with box and papers is $10,000 more than the other. That's not right. If I were you I'd buy the less expensive one from Jacek who is well known in these parts.

Good luck. 1016's are fantastic watches. Definitely get one.

The other seller with the complete set is well known in many parts also.

What makes you believe one has a service dial - because it is brighter and whiter? That is a test for service dials that I haven't heard of before?

By the way, I've seen this complete set in person and it is a blazing nice set and from the original Explorer.

[Michael M.]

Originally Posted by springer

The other seller with the complete set is well known in many parts also.

What makes you believe one has a service dial - because it is brighter and whiter? Is that a new test for service dials that I haven't heard of before?

Agreed. The full set example has an original dial, not service.

[Old Expat Beast]

Sad that the guy had to sell it after being on his wrist all over the world from 1979 - 2016.

[dgdjr]

Hello -

My name is Don Duffee. Rolex Forum and VRF member ID dgdjr. The 1016 set belongs to me. The watch in its entirety (DIAL included) is original - purchased from its original owner. Had never even been opened until recent when it went to ABC for a case polish. I stand behind it 100%. Speedolex - you might try the dial archive on VRF to help you in distinguishing period correct dials and their matching serial range. It is a great learning tool for all of us.

Thank you both John and Michael for your responses to the OPs post above.

Don Duffee
dgdjr
Texas USA

[Frogman4me]

Originally Posted by dgdjr

Hello -

My name is Don Duffee. Rolex Forum and VRF member ID dgdjr. The 1016 set belongs to me. The watch in its entirety (DIAL included) is original - purchased from its original owner. Had never even been opened until recent when it went to ABC for a case polish. I stand behind it 100%. You might try the dial archive on VRF to help you in distinguishing period correct dials and their matching serial range.

Thank you both John and Michael for your responses to the OPs post above.

Don Duffee
dgdjr
Texas USA

100% original dial Don, majority know you and the watch is legit. Don't sweat it

[springer]

Originally Posted by dgdjr

Hello -

My name is Don Duffee. Rolex Forum and VRF member ID dgdjr. The 1016 set belongs to me. The watch in its entirety (DIAL included) is original - purchased from its original owner. Had never even been opened until recent when it went to ABC for a case polish. I stand behind it 100%. Speedolex - you might try the dial archive on VRF to help you in distinguishing period correct dials and their matching serial range. It is a great learning tool for all of us.

Thank you both John and Michael for your responses to the OPs post above.

Don Duffee
dgdjr
Texas USA

No problem Don. Good luck with the sale. Great watch indeed.

jP

[adam78]

Are complete sets recently going up so much in value? I bought such a 1680 about 5 years ago, and then it was adding maybe 35-40% over watch only, not 140%!

[offrdmania]

Originally Posted by adam78

Are complete sets recently going up so much in value? I bought such a 1680 about 5 years ago, and then it was adding maybe 35-40% over watch only, not 140%!

Vintage in general seems to be going up. Its all what someone is willing to pay and if they pay the price then that sets the bar for the next one.

[Gina Marie]

Too bad it was polished....would have considered if a virgin case....must have been in bad shape.

[trackpad]

Great responses, thank you. I just in fact logged in to bump this thread convinced I had not had any comments and was very surprised. I guess alerts are being filtered as spam.

To be clear, I didn't mean to write anything that would impune either watch or seller. They are all well regarded – it was only confusion about the different dial layouts across the same reference. Still not sure there is an answer as to why or how this happens but I'm writing/ reading from my phone...and this website was made before phones, so...not easy. I'll catch up in the morning and follow-up again if need be. Thanks again.

[trackpad]

Originally Posted by speedolex

Good luck. 1016's are fantastic watches. Definitely get one.

Thanks. WTB! :-)

[trackpad]

Originally Posted by springer

What makes you believe one has a service dial - because it is brighter and whiter? That is a test for service dials that I haven't heard of before?

Not at all.

Again I am not throwing shade or casting doubt on either watch – I do not believe either one is necessarily a service dial or is not 100% legitimate (though I can see based on my original post that I could have been more clear). They are both beautiful examples in different ways. I would be happy to own either – or better, both!

It is the watch on the right which has the more unusual dial. The height of the coronet and the alignment of the X in Rolex with the text below... it is not similar to the one on the left, or similar with any other example that I can find.

Could be a service dial, or it could just be a different design. Made for some reason... which I am trying to understand. :-)

[Old Expat Beast]

Originally Posted by trackpad

Not at all.

Again I am not throwing shade or casting doubt on either watch – I do not believe either one is necessarily a service dial or is not 100% legitimate (though I can see based on my original post that I could have been more clear). They are both beautiful examples in different ways. I would be happy to own either – or better, both!

It is the watch on the right which has the more unusual dial. The height of the coronet and the alignment of the X in Rolex with the text below... it is not similar to the one on the left, or similar with any other example that I can find.

Could be a service dial, or it could just be a different design. Made for some reason... which I am trying to understand. :-)

Don't worry, Springer was asking Speedolex, not you

[springer]

Quote:
Originally Posted by springer View Post
What makes you believe one has a service dial - because it is brighter and whiter? That is a test for service dials that I haven't heard of before?



Quote by trackpad:

Not at all.

Again I am not throwing shade or casting doubt on either watch – I do not believe either one is necessarily a service dial or is not 100% legitimate (though I can see based on my original post that I could have been more clear). They are both beautiful examples in different ways. I would be happy to own either – or better, both!

It is the watch on the right which has the more unusual dial. The height of the coronet and the alignment of the X in Rolex with the text below... it is not similar to the one on the left, or similar with any other example that I can find.

Could be a service dial, or it could just be a different design. Made for some reason... which I am trying to understand. :-)
trackpad is offline Report Post Reply With Quote
__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ ____


My quote was directed at speedolex and not you. Additionally, because a dial is white doesn't make it a service dial. Dials, both original and service, come in all colors.

jP

[crowncollection]

Lots of things effect dial colour as stated by some respected members already. Dials on both look original IMHO. Pretty nice set also included with one, you really could not ask for more.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[trackpad]

I am not curious at all about the difference in the way the lume has aged out...we've all seen this before.

What's interesting is the difference in the coronet and other typographic variations one can observe when looking closely. These are different dials (not the same dials aged in a different manner) – but totally different dials, yet from the same serial range/year and on the same reference...and it's interesting and must have been documented somewhere before.

I don't doubt the authenticity of either and think they both look great.

[Toronto Soup King]

I don't think you could go wrong with either. I'd lean towards Jacek's because (a) I'm cheap and (b) I've bought three from him already, but a full set is something which might be worth the price of entry if you're planning on eventual resale or making it an heirloom piece. Best of luck!

Of all my watches, if I could choose to keep only one, it would definitely be my 1016.

[speedolex]

Originally Posted by springer

The other seller with the complete set is well known in many parts also.

What makes you believe one has a service dial - because it is brighter and whiter? That is a test for service dials that I haven't heard of before?

The dial on the one on the left is identical to mine and you fine folks in this forum confirmed that mine is a service dial. The "Rolex" lines up differently than the darker version and the crown is shorter than the darker version, just like the OP points out.

Originally Posted by springer

By the way, I've seen this complete set in person and it is a blazing nice set and from the original Explorer.

That's great, but in light of the fact that all of you (except me apparently) feel that both watches have original, non-service dials do you really think the box and papers should add $10,000 to the purchase price of a $7,000 watch?

[speedolex]

Originally Posted by Michael M.

Agreed. The full set example has an original dial, not service.

So is mine an original dial as well (above)? I was told it wasn't and it appears to my non-expert eyes that it's the same as the dial in the full-set.

[springer]

Originally Posted by speedolex

The dial on the one on the left is identical to mine and you fine folks in this forum confirmed that mine is a service dial. The "Rolex" lines up differently than the darker version and the crown is shorter than the darker version, just like the OP points out.



That's great, but in light of the fact that all of you (except me apparently) feel that both watches have original, non-service dials do you really think the box and papers should add $10,000 to the purchase price of a $7,000 watch?

The selling or asking price of a watch is none of my business so I'm not going to comment further on it.

[swish77]

Keep in mind that the hands on the Explorer without the full set have been relumed and color-matched. That would bother a lot of collectors, but perhaps not others. That also has something to do with the big difference in price.

[speedolex]

Originally Posted by springer

The selling or asking price of a watch is none of my business so I'm not going to comment further on it.

I respect that.

Can you comment on my dial which I was told in this forum was an RSC dial but looks to me identical to the original dial on the full-set example?

If I've got an original dial I'm going to be very pleased, and I'm not sure how one tells the difference to be honest.

[Michael M.]

Originally Posted by speedolex

I respect that.

Can you comment on my dial which I was told in this forum was an RSC dial but looks to me identical to the original dial on the full-set example?

If I've got an original dial I'm going to be very pleased, and I'm not sure how one tells the difference to be honest.

What serial range is your 1016?

Edit; just saw in a previous post your 1016 is from 1960, meaning it should have a Gilt dial. The 1016 on the left in nearly 15 years newer than yours, so the matte dial shown would be correct for a watch from that period.

[speedolex]

Originally Posted by Michael M.

What serial range is your 1016?

Edit; just saw in a previous post your 1016 is from 1960, meaning it should have a Gilt dial. The 1016 on the left in nearly 15 years newer than yours, so the matte dial shown would be correct for a watch from that period.

Right, I get that. My dial is not original to the watch, was told that by the fine folks here on arrival day. Very clear on that.

But it appears the dial I have is not a service dial because it's identical to the dial of the one that is the full-set in the first post from 15 years forward. So my watch has a factory dial, not a service dial, correct? Or does the term "service dial" simply mean "a factory dial from 15 years in the future that is identical to what they shipped in 1975 but not 1960"?

I thought service dials were distinguishable from original dials. Or are they merely the dials that Rolex was putting on the watches at the factory at the time my watch was serviced?

[dgdjr]

Speedolex -

Please if you can not use the link I have included - please follow these instructions to the Vintage Rolex Forum Dial Archive - There you will see a dial match to my dial and possibly yours. My dial is original to the watch and IS NOT a service dial and I stand behind it once again. You might email Jacek and ask him to take a look at this post also. I know him him very well and have no problems with his comment.

VRF link -
1016--ca. 1974, hacking--posted by Ashil
Not working for me so follow these steps -
#1: Go to vintagerolexforum.com
#2: Click the DIAL ARCHIVE icon at the top of either page
#3: Select Explorer 1
#4: Look for the header "1016--ca. 1974, hacking--posted by Ashil"

There you will see a match to my dial.

As for your extreme concern about price - vintage pieces along with some other more current Rolex (not current production) command different prices for different pieces and condition / documentation adds value as well. Basically as stated above by another poster - whatever someone is willing to pay for an item. To me - this post has nothing to do with price. I am basically responding to the original poster in reference to the originality of my watch.

Don Duffee
dgdjr

[dgdjr]

Speedolex -

Your dial does not match my dial nor the link I have included - so I can not speak for your dial. This is another of Jaceks sold 1016s from 1974. A match to my dial. You may start with comparing the coronets.

http://www.hqmilton.com/watches/1974...plorer-1-10161

Don Duffee
dgdjr

[Michael M.]

Originally Posted by speedolex

Right, I get that. My dial is not original to the watch, was told that by the fine folks here on arrival day. Very clear on that.

But it appears the dial I have is not a service dial because it's identical to the dial of the one that is the full-set in the first post from 15 years forward. So my watch has a factory dial, not a service dial, correct? Or does the term "service dial" simply mean "a factory dial from 15 years in the future that is identical to what they shipped in 1975 but not 1960"?

I thought service dials were distinguishable from original dials. Or are they merely the dials that Rolex was putting on the watches at the factory at the time my watch was serviced?

A service dial can refer to the following

(1) a replacement dial that was fitted at the time of service. Essentially "the dials that Rolex was putting on the watches at the factory at the time my watch was serviced"

(2) a variation of dial produced after production of a model/reference to fill the needs of those wishing to replace their dials.

Your dial falls under the first category, as it was most likely fitted during a service in the mid 1970's.

Hope this clears any confusion.

[speedolex]

Originally Posted by Michael M.

A service dial can refer to the following

(1) a replacement dial that was fitted at the time of service. Essentially "the dials that Rolex was putting on the watches at the factory at the time my watch was serviced"

(2) a variation of dial produced after production of a model/reference to fill the needs of those wishing to replace their dials.

Your dial falls under the first category, as it was most likely fitted during a service in the mid 1970's.

Hope this clears any confusion.

It does, thank you for clarifying.

The limited paperwork that came with my watch said it was last serviced by Rolex in 1997 and fitted with a replacement bracelet, looks like they did the dial and hands simultaneously which explains why they are so white comparatively; assuming they had late model 1016 dials lying around in 1997.

This makes me happy because back in March when I was 1016 hunting I desperately wanted a 1990 L late model because I wanted the newest/whitest dial I could find. So I have a 1960 which looks like a 1990 and probably saved $3,000 in the process. It's a daily wearer for me, not concerned about its collectible value now or in the future.