How Do Y'all Flip Watches?

[Chiboy]

My current watch experience (31 years on my first Rolex, awaiting my Daytona as #2) does not suggest that this forum, as evil as it is, will turn me into a serial watch flipper. But you never know.

I am curious how you do it semi-efficiently. As I have been spending way too much time here I have read numerous posts about people going through watches in very short order, and about how they don't lose much in each transaction or always make a bit or whatever. It seems to me there are a lot of obstacles to overcome:

1) Sales tax -- a killer here in IL, but can be avoided most times with private purchases or out of state addresses. I assume flippers never pay sales tax

2) Buying at full retail -- other than really hot watches, like the SS Daytona which is cheaper at MSRP from an AD than it is in the aftermarket, flippers can't afford to buy from an AD and then sell in the aftermarket and break even or thereabouts.

3) Buying from Trusted Sellers -- a cursory look around, and I don't pretend to know who all the TS are here, suggests that in the Pricing Universe, ADs are at the top, but TS get a premium over, say eBay, Craigslist, and private transactions due to the extremely low risk associated with buying a $5,000-$50,000 readily counterfeited luxury item.

4) The possibility of a new acquisition needing a $500-$1,000 service -- Unless a watch is new or almost new, there is a decent probability that it is not being sold freshly serviced, so a service budget should be accounted for in the price.

5) Shipping with insurance -- I don't know how much it costs to Fedex a small box with $10,000 or $20,000 of insurance, but I assume it is significant, especially for private individuals who don't have a commercial account.

So with the above "issues," the largest of which is buying from a TS ($$$) and selling privately ($$), how do people do it effectively? I get the idea of buying something well, but it probably is hard to do when TS know the market at least as well as you do.

Thoughts?

[Fuselierpa]

I'm not a watch flipper at this point, but I have been a flipper of cars, guitars, motorcycles and golf clubs, at various times.

I think you have identified the hidden costs well. The most important thing - no matter what the item is, watches, houses, cars, guitars, bikes, anything - is to buy well. If you pay to much to buy, you will always lose money when you sell.

This requires patience, discipline and a certain lack of emotion. You can't fall in love. You have to say no, if the price isn't right.

Which is kind of the opposite of how most collectors feel, right? We want to buy things exactly because we fall in love with them. So if you want to approach the hobby as a flipper and not lose money doing it, you have to approach it more like a business. If you want to fall in and out of love, then you need to approach it like an expense and budget accordingly.

[Watchgeek5000]

When most people flip a watch, they kind of factor in a loss. If I purchase a $5000 watch pre owned from a trusted non AD source, I can expect to wear it for a while and use it towards my next purchase with let's say a $500 loss. So in reality, I rented the watch for $500. I'm ok with that, I had a good time finding the watch I had a great time wearing the watch and I kind of enjoyed selling the watch. Best of all, I had GREAT time getting my next watch! Some people will spend $500 on a nice bottle of wine or perhaps a strip club (lol) I'll spend it flipping a watch. Never buy from an AD full price and tax, you'll lose thousands that way! If you work out a deal with a seller on here, or a trusted eBay seller you should be ok with the flip later on, once you start losing more than $500 your not doing it right.

[bradj]

Originally Posted by Watchgeek5000

When most people flip a watch, they kind of factor in a loss. If I purchase a $5000 watch pre owned from a trusted non AD source, I can expect to wear it for a while and use it towards my next purchase with let's say a $500 loss. So in reality, I rented the watch for $500. I'm ok with that, I had a good time finding the watch I had a great time wearing the watch and I kind of enjoyed selling the watch. Best of all, I had GREAT time getting my next watch! Some people will spend $500 on a nice bottle of wine or perhaps a strip club (lol) I'll spend it flipping a watch. Never buy from an AD full price and tax, you'll lose thousands that way! If you work out a deal with a seller on here, or a trusted eBay seller you should be ok with the flip later on, once you start losing more than $500 your not doing it right.

That is a pretty reasonable approach. I'd be surprised if there are many people not in the business of buying selling watches that are actually in the black when it comes to the bulk of their transactions.

[rodo]

Originally Posted by Fuselierpa

I'm not a watch flipper at this point, but I have been a flipper of cars, guitars, motorcycles and golf clubs, at various times.

I think you have identified the hidden costs well. The most important thing - no matter what the item is, watches, houses, cars, guitars, bikes, anything - is to buy well. If you pay to much to buy, you will always lose money when you sell.

This requires patience, discipline and a certain lack of emotion. You can't fall in love. You have to say no, if the price isn't right.

Which is kind of the opposite of how most collectors feel, right? We want to buy things exactly because we fall in love with them. So if you want to approach the hobby as a flipper and not lose money doing it, you have to approach it more like a business. If you want to fall in and out of love, then you need to approach it like an expense and budget accordingly.

+1. They key is learning to not get emotional... which kind if takes a. It of thr magic away to be fair but you gotta pick

[Watchgeek5000]

Originally Posted by bradj

That is a pretty reasonable approach. I'd be surprised if there are many people not in the business of buying selling watches that are actually in the black when it comes to the bulk of their transactions.

The committed sellers make money, they do not buy on emotion as we do! For them it's a business and must make money, for flippers it's a hobby and a passion. We're willing to forgo profit for enjoyment.

[Chiboy]

So what I'm hearing is that flippers don't really expect to buy low and sell high and come out even or make a bit on a flip. They expect to lose maybe 10% or so for the experience. That I can understand.

I imagine it takes some time to establish yourself on a selling forum like this one and that you really need to do so, since eBay fees and Paypal fees will probably double your costs of ownership.

[Watchgeek5000]

Originally Posted by Chiboy

So what I'm hearing is that flippers don't really expect to buy low and sell high and come out even or make a bit on a flip. They expect to lose maybe 10% or so for the experience. That I can understand.

I imagine it takes some time to establish yourself on a selling forum like this one and that you really need to do so, since eBay fees and Paypal fees will probably double your costs of ownership.

Don't get me wrong, there are flippers out there who can break even or even make a few dollars on a flip..... Unfortunately most of the time, I'm not one of them! I sacrifice profit for convenience most of the time.

[explodingtaco]

Originally Posted by Watchgeek5000

I sacrifice profit for convenience most of the time.

I've only flipped 2 watches (one I regret) but I sell online all the time. I too sacrifice profit for convenience. I don't negotiate hard and and once I want something gone I just want it gone. A couple/few hundred dollars is not worth the time to extract it.

Of course my wife would like it otherwise: I was informed that $300 I negotiated down on my last MacBook would have made for a really nice purse

[Lex_Ordo]

I'm not in sales so that art is best left for the professionals who know how to wheel and deal.

I recently sold a watch to fund the purchase of another, but I owned the watch I sold for 27 years before letting it go. That time span actually made money on the deal, but Rolex prices have increased too.
Not a flip, but without that sale I would have had to shell out another $2k.

[texex91]

Simple buy right, period.

And of course never pay sales tax (buy or ship out of state).

[AK797]

Originally Posted by Chiboy

So what I'm hearing is that flippers don't really expect to buy low and sell high and come out even or make a bit on a flip. They expect to lose maybe 10% or so for the experience. That I can understand.

I imagine it takes some time to establish yourself on a selling forum like this one and that you really need to do so, since eBay fees and Paypal fees will probably double your costs of ownership.

Yes flippers here are watch fans and not trying to make money, we just try to buy smart and mitigate losses as staying on this forum will make you want to buy a new watch every month and the smart play is often to sell one to buy another.

[ap1]

My experience is more like 20% losses / rental / audition - whatever you want to call it. That's with decent discounts from ADs. Maybe you get closer to 10% if buying preowned. PM is worse. I contend impossible to make final decision from speed dating at an AD. I need to Experience more than that to truly know.

[RolexZen]

My flipping has been pretty restrained, but I figure some of the constant flippers might set a budget for themselves--they can flip as often as they like, but maybe they try not to come out of pocket more than $X/year.

And, of course, buying wisely (at discount, used, etc) can make that budget go a long ways.

I currently plan to hold on to my nicer pieces long-term (likely passing them on to my children), but I've flipped my cheaper watches as I've upgraded, or just to change things up (e.g. I've flipped my beach/pool beater, usually a japanese diver, each of the past three summers. I don't mind losing a few dollars on those flips.)

[WAK4]

Buy what I like but also keeping in mind there's a good chance it may be flipped. If so, am I getting a good enough price to at a minimum not get killed on resale.

Years ago a profit was easy. Buy secondary market, wear it six months and roll profit into the next ones. Now I'm happy with breakeven but accept some loss as the cost to play.

[JP Chestnut]

Unprofitably.

[hbombkid]

I have flipped a couple watches and remained basically even. I have lost a little (under 1k between 3 flipped watches), but for a hobby got to pay to play.

To be honest I would have lost more but non Rolex watches I made money due to accessories and the increase in them specifically Omega straps and bezels.

[fusionstorm]

History thus far has shown that vintage Rolex sport models have always appreciated in value over the long term. Even pieces that were bought shortly before the global recession have bounced back in value and then some. But like any investment, past performance is no guarantee of future results.

Caveat emptor......vintage is not an easy thing to jump into. Do your research, and buy from a trusted seller who specializes in vintage. I've bought multiple pieces from Jacek at HQ Milton, and he's also sold multiple pieces for me on consignment. Even with his consignment fee, I've made money on every piece sold.

Caveat emptor #2......typically, vintage collectors are keepers rather than flippers, unless an amazing opportunity comes up.

[Newrolex1234]

I dont flip watches but flipping in general as mentioned by many of our members is buying right and having a threshold on how much you are willing to lose. My bro in law does that with cars and he always takes a lose but it comes out to be way cheaper than leasing and he can put more miles on the car than leasing.