Mystery Dial on an AP Royal Oak Jumbo 14802

[roro]

Hi All,

I've recently bought an AP RO Jumbo reference 14802ST. This is the rare Jubilee limited edition (1000 pieces) that was made in the early 90's.

This particular watch is number 662/1000 (marked on the rotor). The serial on the case is D-12576. I picked this up in Zurich from the owner but no papers. He claimed he was the original owner and remembered nothing about replacing the dial. He says its been sitting in a drawer for 10+ years and that he's rarely worn it because it has become "too small" for his wrist now. Judging from the crispness of he watch case and bracelet, it indeed hadn't been worn much.

The mystery is the dial. Its not the common configuration one would see on this reference.

The dial matches what I've seen on other Jubilee references perfectly (color, font, etc.) except for the AP logo at 6 and indices at 12.

At first I thought it was either an older series dial, a newer dial, or a service dial but the upon close inspection it doesn't fall into either category.

"Audemars Piguet" is written with the modern font so that means its not an older series dial.

The color is charcoal and not blue, it has the smaller "older looking" tapisserie pattern, there's "Swiss Made" at the very bottom of the dial (not flanking the 6 o'clock), and the tritium has aged. To me its not a newer dial.

I've also seen a few service dials and they don't have this charcoal color, same "feel" to the tapisserie (hard to describe unless you see in person), nor the same printing. It also doesn't look like a redial either (fonts match perfectly, crispness of tapisserie, old tritium, etc.).


I have yet to seen any other dial exactly like this one on the web or in person.

Anyone seen this particular dial configuration before?

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hebergeur gratuit

[ericdos]

Isn't this a 15202?

[PJ S]

It looks like an original 5402 dial that’s had the modern ‘Audemars Piguet Automatic’ printed on it.
Maybe the original dial was damaged and they had to reprint the text or the only suitably correct dial to replace the original was this one, and the text was faded, so needed redone.
I’d be very doubtful that mid-production they changed the text – but it’s possible if there was a period of non-production, and certain personnel or design changes were introduced and implemented across the board.

[CWIN]

I'd give AP a call.

[Tomas Eriksson]

It very much looks like a 14802 with a 15202 dial. Interesting to say the least.

[lapince]

How cool would it be to have 666 instead of 662, man you missed it by a hair. :-)

[AK797]

Originally Posted by lapince

How cool would it be to have 666 instead of 662, man you missed it by a hair. :-)

It's more Frankenstein than Devil if the dial has been swapped.

[roro]

Originally Posted by Tomas Eriksson

It very much looks like a 14802 with a 15202 dial. Interesting to say the least.

I took this watch to the local AP dealer here in Paris a while ago and of course they were clueless. They said "oh, its definitely authentic".

Its definitely not a 15202 dial. Below is what a 15202 dial looks like:

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Here's what my dial looks like:

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Here's what a "common" 14802 dial looks like:

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Notice the dark blue (no gray) color and the "Swiss Made" flanking each side of the 6 o'clock index on the 15202. Indices on a 15202 would glow in the dark. My dial has almost dead tritium (very faint glow left if exposed to strong light). I've compared my watch side by side w/ a 15202 when I was at AP and the dials are COMPLETELY different in terms of color and size of the tappiserie pattern.

For me, its not an older 5402 dial either. I've handled many 5402's and have one currently. The color of the 5402 dials are not the same and neither are the fonts. If it was a redialed 5402, the tritium would most likely glow. And what would a redialed 5402 dial be doing on a 14802 anyway? Not to mention that the color and tapisserie of my dial is spot on for a 14802 (charcoal grey with a slight iridescence appearing blueish gray in some lights).

I'm convinced its a dial from the 14802 series/time period. I've seen other 14802's and the dial color, tappiserie, and fonts are identical. The only difference being that it has the AP logo at 6 and the dual indices at 12. Maybe it was a custom order from AP? Anyway, I find this configuration more desirable personally.

[sechsgang]

Pretty interesting...

[Hairdude1]

Interesting

[lapince]

Originally Posted by AK797

It's more Frankenstein than Devil if the dial has been swapped.

[Tomas Eriksson]

I found another 14802 with stick indexes from the same limited run of 1000. It seems to be the batch released at 2002 on the 30th year anniversary of the Royal Oak. The seller has listed it as a 1992, but a d-serial is around 2002 and that also corresponds to 30th aniversary.
http://www.chrono24.ca/audemarspigue...-id5365498.htm

[roro]

Originally Posted by Tomas Eriksson

I found another 14802 with stick indexes from the same limited run of 1000. It seems to be the batch released at 2002 on the 30th year anniversary of the Royal Oak. The seller has listed it as a 1992, but a d-serial is around 2002 and that also corresponds to 30th aniversary.
http://www.chrono24.ca/audemarspigue...-id5365498.htm

Thanks for this info Tomas. The 14802 reference was indeed released in 1992 for the 20th anniversary of the Royal Oak (and not in 2002). I think the seller made a mistake when he wrote "30th anniversary...". D serial corresponds to 1987-1994 according to info on the archive: http://www.rolexforums.com/archive/i.../t-219865.html so that's all good.

That watch does indeed have the same dial configuration as my watch with the same "modern" font, swiss made at the very bottom, and AP logo at 6. So now we have two specimens of the limited edition 14802 with this dial type! But what's with that bright blue color? Maybe a special order? I've seen other so called "Yves Klein" bright blue dials before but mostly on the reference 14790, never on the Jumbo. Maybe AP was entertaining custom orders for the dials at the time or was offering different dial choices/colors on the RO? There are some 14802's with a salmon dial so that may well be the case. The plot thickens...

If anyone has more info, please chime in.

[Tomas Eriksson]

Originally Posted by roro

Thanks for this info Tomas. The 14802 reference was indeed released in 1992 for the 20th anniversary of the Royal Oak (and not in 2002). I think the seller made a mistake when he wrote "30th anniversary...". D serial corresponds to 1987-1994 according to info on the archive: http://www.rolexforums.com/archive/i.../t-219865.html so that's all good.

That watch does indeed have the same dial configuration as my watch with the same "modern" font, swiss made at the very bottom, and AP logo at 6. So now we have two specimens of the limited edition 14802 with this dial type! But what's with that bright blue color? Maybe a special order? I've seen other so called "Yves Klein" bright blue dials before but mostly on the reference 14790, never on the Jumbo. Maybe AP was entertaining custom orders for the dials at the time or was offering different dial choices/colors on the RO? There are some 14802's with a salmon dial so that may well be the case. The plot thickens...

If anyone has more info, please chime in.

Oh boy, I was on to something but got all the facts wrong. Thank you for correcting and clearing things up.
14790 is getting more and more interesting. I'm very curious to know if some of these pieces as you are guessing were special orders or if AP did novelty runs back then like they do today.

[roro]

Originally Posted by Tomas Eriksson

Oh boy, I was on to something but got all the facts wrong. Thank you for correcting and clearing things up.
14790 is getting more and more interesting. I'm very curious to know if some of these pieces as you are guessing were special orders or if AP did novelty runs back then like they do today.

You are most welcome Tomas! The 14790 is indeed an interesting and undervalued reference IMHO with a robust and thin caliber 2225 (JLC 889 based) movement. The 36mm size makes it less desirable to most because, well, its small by today's standards. The popularity of the Offshore models and the chunky oversized watch craze attests to this. Personally that's not my cup of tea.

I have a 36mm 25730 dual time model and I think its fantastic. Its elegant, well proportioned, and a perfectly coherent size for the Royal Oak. Not the mention it has what I consider a most useful complication (I travel frequently so the 2nd timezone feature comes in handy). The 36mm RO models wear bigger than the size might indicate due to the large lug to lug span and the large integrated bracelet. In fact the 5402 "Jumbo" got its nickname because it was considered a large watch for the time. By modern standards, 39mm is on the "smaller" side for a sports watch. For me 39mm is the maximum size I'd wear in a Royal Oak. Anything larger just doesn't look right on my wrist and the proportions look off to my eye (case vs. dial vs. bracelet).

As for the so called "Yves Klein" bright blue dials, I have no idea if they were special orders or limited editions and there's very little info available on them. Perhaps they were "boutique editions" like we have today (certain dial colors only available through AP boutiques and not through retailers)? Regardless, they are interesting pieces and definitely worth looking into.

[mtl514]

Looks like a 5402 service dial to me. It's always been a popular mod, so I can see it having been done to yours by the previous owner.

[mtl514]

I have a 15202 with the same mod.

[improviz]

^^^ The font on this dial does not match the OP's

[mtl514]

Oops!

[roro]

Originally Posted by mtl514

I have a 15202 with the same mod.

Hi mtl514,

Thanks for posting and what a lovely watch. As Improviz pointed out, the fonts are different vs. mine. Your dial looks like a service dial base on this post: http://forums.timezone.com/index.php...=6996152&rid=0

[mtl514]

When I first looks at your dial it struck me as very similar but of course as pointed out, yours has the more modern fonts. It seems very unique and if it left the factory that way, rare! I'm so curious to know it's a service dial, seems unlikely that it was a special order if there are two or more... And yours is #662 so it isn't close to the other #44. I love the dial layout with the AP at 6!!
Thanks, mine is an older 15202 and yes it's sporting a 5402 service dial! I prefer mine to the one you linked only because 5402's had white date wheels.

[roro]

Originally Posted by mtl514

When I first looks at your dial it struck me as very similar but of course as pointed out, yours has the more modern fonts. It seems very unique and if it left the factory that way, rare! I'm so curious to know it's a service dial, seems unlikely that it was a special order if there are two or more... And yours is #662 so it isn't close to the other #44. I love the dial layout with the AP at 6!!
Thanks, mine is an older 15202 and yes it's sporting a 5402 service dial! I prefer mine to the one you linked only because 5402's had white date wheels.

Yes, vs. the service dial the fonts are indeed different and so is the dial color judging from the picture (although its difficult to tell).
I had never seen this exact dial anywhere else until Thomas posted the other 14802 with the same configuration (albeit in the "Yves Klein" bright blue which in themselves are also a mystery). On mine the luminous is aged and the fonts, color, and texture match the "common" 14802 dials. I doubt its a service dial since it would have probably shown up somewhere else like on a 5402 for instance which I have never seen. I'm leaning towards a special order or a boutique edition of some kind. It reminds me a bit of the special edition 15202 made for The Hour Glass boutique in Singapore with the green dial and yellow gold https://www.audemarspiguet.com/en/wa....OO.1240BA.01/
50 of these exist and the mods go over and above the dial but since AP has done this recently for one boutique they may have done some kind of special dial version in the past. Who knows, a limited edition within a limited edition perhaps.
Anyway, of the 1000 14802's that were made we've only seen a limited number of dial samples (pictures on the web). I'm willing to bet there are more of them out there. It still remains a mystery but this dial makes this watch for me and I would have ordered it this way myself if that was indeed an option
I jumped on it as soon as I saw it for sale because of the interesting dial.

By the way, why is the date wheel on your 15202 white? Was this a special order?

[roro]

Happy New Year everyone! If anyone has any news on this dial I'd love to solve the mystery in 2017