Paul Newman's First Daytona

[clarkhardball]

With the recent discovery of PN's 6239 and the entire watchworld buzzing about it (and how much it will fetch at auction), I am inclined to ask - what were Mr. Newman's other watches? A quick search led me to none other than Jake's blog:

http://www.rolexmagazine.com/2010/05...ewman.html?m=1

What I found particularly interesting is Page 2 - where it delves into PN's FIRST DAYTONA! A black 6263 given by Mrs. Newman in 1972.

http://www.rolexmagazine.com/2002/03...ytona.html?m=1

The source of this claim comes from a 2003 interview with PN himself by Rolex historian John Brozek (The Rolex Report)

http://www.qualitytyme.net/pages/rol...n_daytona.html

Mr. Brozek repeats this claim in another article dated 2005, I have highlighted an excerpt below for your viewing pleasure:

http://www.qualitytyme.net/pages/rol...30daytona.html



Now a black 6263 purchased new in 1972 cannot be a Big Red. And since these were reported to be very slow sellers, it is also highly improbable that they were sigma dials. I would put my money on an earlier dial configuration.

What are the logical options, considering PN was given this as a present in '72? He was photographed with it extensively, I would even go as far as saying, he was photographed wearing it more than the exotic dial. But the quality of the pics aren't really definitive.



Btw, it is important to note that PN was still wearing his 6263 during the Brozek interview in 2003 - 31 years after receiving it from his wife, and 19 years after he gave away his exotic dial 6239 to James Potts (according to Hodinkee). He wore this one the most.

One has to wonder, what exactly is this 6263 he is wearing, and where is it today??? Looks to me given the particular provenance and the duration he wore it, this would be a very sentimental timepiece for PN himself. I know everyone is crazy about the exotics, but the fact that Joanne gave him this watch and the years he was photographed wearing it attests that it has got to be his favorite, or at least one of them. He has been seen wearing this 6263 on a fatstrap, on its original oyster, on a heavy oyster, and even on a jubilee!!! The guy loved this watch! There is the Exotic Paul Newman Daytona we all know - and then there is Paul Newman's trusty Daytona which he wore for at least 3 decades.









Images are from Jake's Rolex Site
www.rolexmagazine.com

[clarkhardball]

Erratum: should read as James Cox :-) Nell Potts was PN's daughter!

[uncleluck]

Maybe the family has it and has no intentions of selling it?

[Jeffwb65]

This article references an interview with Newman's other daughter Clea. She has a blue dialed Daytona from Him that She wears and cherishes. It also has an inscription from His wife Joanne. It seems to have been a tradition for Her to give Him Daytonas as gifts periodically over Their long marriage. She obviously "got" Him and knew what He liked.

https://www.revolution.watch/newmans-own/

[clarkhardball]

Great article. That "blue" daytona could very well be it.

[Njtster]

This does put the Daytona going up for auction in to a different light somewhat. I assumed the one going up for auction was his first Daytona. Interesting digging and read. Thanks so much!

[clarkhardball]

I think Paul Newman in the Brozek interview, daughter Nell Newman in an interview with Jake Ehrlich, and finally daughter Clea Newman (via the Revolution article above) are referring to the same "Drive Slowly, Joanne" black 6263.

[uncleluck]

Originally Posted by Njtster

This does put the Daytona going up for auction in to a different light somewhat. I assumed the one going up for auction was his first Daytona. Interesting digging and read. Thanks so much!

I might be classed an old sceptic (but it's stopped me being burnt no doubt) but he could well have had 10 watches for all we'll know.

I just find the 'story' from hodinkee a bit too convenient. My own Dad wouldn't give me his favourite watch while he's still breathing haha. Just found it a bit odd that he would have a watch he treasured, a gift from his wife and just hand it to his daughter's boyfriend during a casual meeting! It did rather smack of it being a watch he didn't mind giving away rather than the treasure it's made out to be. If the story is even tru in any way that is.

Wait for the "The real, real Paul Newman Daytona has been found" story, coming soon!

[MonBK]

I agree. ^

[ekbusdriver]

Wanted to share this yesterday, but the site was down for maintenance.

This is interesting since it appears to have two authentic photos of the actual watch, but the inscription is different.
No matter, the buyer will be a very lucky individual.
http://www.roadandtrack.com/car-cult...rolex-daytona/

[clarkhardball]

I wonder, if both the exotic 6239 and the "Drive slowly, Joanne" 6263 were auctioned at the same time, which would the market put more value on?

The exotic dial that he gave away to a daughter's boyfriend, the watch that we, as a collective audience, have associated with him (imposed on him would be a better term)

Or

The plain jane black 6263 that the man undoubtedly wore frequently and kept for sentimental reasons.

Will the herd want the watch that everyone will recognize, or will it want the watch that can truly be called Newman's Own :-)

[roh123]

The 6263 is clearly later or has a changed dial. The white 6239 is the one and only Paul Newman Paul Newman. Trust it to beat the Bao Dai and fetch 5m+.

The big red is of course also Paul Newmans but imho it is less interesting as it is not an exotic dial.

[clarkhardball]

Originally Posted by roh123

The 6263 is clearly later or has a changed dial. The white 6239 is the one and only Paul Newman Paul Newman. Trust it to beat the Bao Dai and fetch 5m+.

The big red is of course also Paul Newmans but imho it is less interesting as it is not an exotic dial.

Paul Newman himself said in the Brozek interview that the 6263 was his first. Here is the excerpt from that interview-

"My first Daytona that I can specifically remember, at least, is this one," he said, showing me the watch on his wrist, and which he wears all the time. It was given to him by his wife in 1972, the year he started his professional racing career. Interestingly, this is not a Paul Newman (Exotic dial) model at all, but it is a Daytona (model 6263), with black dial and white registers. On the back it bears the inscription: 'Drive Slowly, Joanne.'

I do realize that a black 6263 is a less interesting reality and probably eats out of the legend status of the exotics, but hey if Paul Newman himself said it was his first, then how come we the general public can't seem to take his statements at face value.

Also, a 1972 purchased black 6263 cannot be a Big Red.

[roh123]

Originally Posted by clarkhardball

Paul Newman himself said in the Brozek interview that the 6263 was his first. Here is the excerpt from that interview-

"My first Daytona that I can specifically remember, at least, is this one," he said, showing me the watch on his wrist, and which he wears all the time. It was given to him by his wife in 1972, the year he started his professional racing career. Interestingly, this is not a Paul Newman (Exotic dial) model at all, but it is a Daytona (model 6263), with black dial and white registers. On the back it bears the inscription: 'Drive Slowly, Joanne.'

I do realize that a black 6263 is a less interesting reality and probably eats out of the legend status of the exotics, but hey if Paul Newman himself said it was his first, then how come we the general public can't seem to take his statements at face value.

Also, a 1972 purchased black 6263 cannot be a Big Red.

He was 80 something when he tried to remember. As far as I can recall it is the white dial 6239 we see on most of the old pictures. Never a 6263 even with another dial. Perhaps he had one but the pics with the 6263 is as far as I know from the time when big reds were around. Perhaps a service dial at that time but most of the famous pics of the man himself with a pn daytona is with the watch which is now for sale. Thus this will be the trophy watch to get for the super rich people wanting it.

Even if it is correct he got a 6263 in 1972 we still haven't seen it. I'd be happy to be wrong and learn that he had a cool panda/rco/normal daytona. I just don't put too much into the interview. The 6239 is obviously around during this time and this watch is what we have drewled at for years.

[clarkhardball]

Originally Posted by roh123

He was 80 something when he tried to remember. As far as I can recall it is the white dial 6239 we see on most of the old pictures. Never a 6263 even with another dial. Perhaps he had one but the pics with the 6263 is as far as I know from the time when big reds were around. Perhaps a service dial at that time but most of the famous pics of the man himself with a pn daytona is with the watch which is now for sale. Thus this will be the trophy watch to get for the super rich people wanting it.



Even if it is correct he got a 6263 in 1972 we still haven't seen it. I'd be happy to be wrong and learn that he had a cool panda/rco/normal daytona. I just don't put too much into the interview. The 6239 is obviously around during this time and this watch is what we have drewled at for years.

http://www.rolexmagazine.com/2002/03...ytona.html?m=1

Kindly see link above for extensive photos of him wearing the 6263. Thats a whole lot of pictures, way more than of him wearing an exotic dial.

Again we have to take his word for it, even if he said it at 78 years old. It's nice to have theories and conjectures, but saying that his statement isn't reliable due to old age is just shortchanging the guy.

The interview with Paul Newman, along with two separate interviews with his daughters Nell and Clea, all point to the same black 6263 inscribed "Drive Slowly, Joanne"

I'm just quoting 3 separate interviewers who have done their homework, I'm not adding any theories to this.

[clarkhardball]

And trust me, once all auction records are broken by that 6239, this 6263 is going to surface. Mark my words gentlemen!!!

[roh123]

Do we know when those pics are taken? I wouldn't be surprised if they are shot in the mid 70's when big reds were avsilable. Still; the important watch from Paul Newman will be the exotic dial and not the black one which is either a big red or a standard black dial. The one that created the myth is the white 6239 now for sale. Regardless what he said in the interview. A bit similar to Steve Mcqueen owning and wearing a 5512. The Steve Mcqueen Rolex is the 1655.

Perhaps the 6263 shows up but I am quite certain that the PN at Phillips is what will fetch the big bucks.

[clarkhardball]

We don't need dates my friend because Newman himself said the watch was from 1972, the year he started racing. I don't think at 78 he would forget something like that.

Anybody else here think that it's ridiculous that the 1655 explorer is named after a man who never wore it?

I don't think its apples to apples that comparison. PN did own that 6239 for a time. But it wasn't his first daytona, and it wasn't the daytona he ended his days with. The honor belongs to that mysterious black 6263.

[roh123]

I would personally rather have Paul Newmans Paul Newman than Paul Newmans non-Paul Newman. Each to their own though.

[clarkhardball]

From a monetary perspective I would have to agree. That watch is big bucks. Plus boy o boy the bragging rights to go with it.

But if one were truly a fan of the man, wouldn't you want to own the one he loved and wore his whole life? The stories that watch would tell.

Agree, to each his own, myself I would go for the 6263 that was precious not just to PN himself but to his family as well. I understand from the Revolution article that Clea is keeping it as a family heirloom of sorts.

I am still hoping that we see more of that 6263 in the future.

[Jeffwb65]

Originally Posted by clarkhardball

And trust me, once all auction records are broken by that 6239, this 6263 is going to surface. Mark my words gentlemen!!!

Apparently You didn't read the attached article. Clea clearly says that She cherishes the Daytona as a connection to Her Dad and Mom, and that She would never part with it. Some people value things other than money.


https://www.revolution.watch/newmans-own/

[clarkhardball]

Originally Posted by Jeffwb65

Apparently You didn't read the attached article. Clea clearly says that She cherishes the Daytona as a connection to Her Dad and Mom, and that She would never part with it. Some people value things other than money.





https://www.revolution.watch/newmans-own/

Apparently you did not read the entire thread, since you misread my statement. Besides, resurface does not automatically mean auction sale. There are other ways we can appreciate it other than $$$$$

[Jeffwb65]

Originally Posted by clarkhardball

Apparently you did not read the entire thread, since you misread my statement. Besides, resurface does not automatically mean auction sale. There are other ways we can appreciate it other than $$$$$

I did read the thread. And You repeatedly speculate about the watch that is kept and treasured by Clea coming up for sale. Not sure how to arrive at any other conclusion.

[clarkhardball]

Originally Posted by Jeffwb65

I did read the thread. And You repeatedly speculate about the watch that is kept and treasured by Clea coming up for sale. Not sure how to arrive at any other conclusion.

On the contrary my friend the point I am driving at is why we all seem to glorify the wrong watch, seeing that it was not even sentimental enough for Newman to keep, and the watch that he actually did love is the watch that everyone seemed to forget about.

I'd really be more interested in that one. Again nobody really knows much about this 6263. Resurfacing does not really mean it will be up for sale. I am curious as to what this 6263 is, I want to know more about it

[beetleything]

Black face panda & white face panada - which do you prefer?

Seems Newman preferred the Black face.

me - i like the white face.

Pretty simple really.

[andromeda160]

I really don't see what's so special about this watch. The dial looks like crap now, and there's plenty of items used by Newman that don't realize anywhere near what speculators think this will command. I'd much rather own one of his cars or bikes. Or both and still have plenty of money to buy a mint condition PN Daytona that wasn't owned by him. In general I would rather have a watch with a more historically significant figure as well. Maybe the watch of a Czar, King or Dictator, a Special Ops soldier, a Deepsea diver, someone whose historical significance will stand the test of time. Whoever buys this watch has more money than sense. The PN fad will end up wearing off eventually. Then they'll be left with a damaged watch from a forgotten actor/racer.

[Mersey]

Originally Posted by Jeffwb65

Apparently You didn't read the attached article. Clea clearly says that She cherishes the Daytona as a connection to Her Dad and Mom, and that She would never part with it. Some people value things other than money.


https://www.revolution.watch/newmans-own/

People with money usually value things other than money.

[beetleything]

True dat!

[Boaters]

All I can say is what a watch meaning more as history so cool!

[Jeffwb65]

Originally Posted by Mersey

People with money usually value things other than money.

It's not always that cut and dried. I definitely don't have a lot of money, and there are things that my late Father left me that I could sell for a profit. But I would never part with them, because they're things He gave to me.

Yes, I'm sure Mr. Newman's daughter Clea is financially comfortable, but You have no way of knowing what She would do with that timepiece from Her Father if She wasn't as comfortable. Not everyone sees dollar signs on all belongings.