My 5513 is not consistent

[bjoe9]

I’ve had my 5513 service by a local watchmaker back in feb/16. But since then it’s been very inconsistent. Some days it’ll be -6sec, next day it’s -39sec and everything in between. I’ve taken it back to him twice. He had it on the time grapher, made adjustments on it in several positions, both times, but still experiencing the same issue.

I take it to a different watchmaker, again, be puts it on the Timegrapher and he says it looks good too. He investigates further and suspects there might be insufficient lubricatant on the pallet fork jewels. He makes the nessesary adjustment and says it might not solve it without another full service.

Alas, it didn’t really seem to solve the issues. This was about 6 months ago. Both watchmakers mention this being a vintage piece, it’s quite temperamental so it’s not uncommon for it to be like this.

At this time, I was wearing this watch everyday, so it should have been fully wound and in multiple positions.

What is everyones option on this? Vintage pieces are temperamental and leave it be? Does this need it be serviced again? Keep in mind, these two watchmakers are very reputable.

[Sunny Arizona]

Everything they said was likely true. Vintage watches are temperamental. I am sure someone will be along to say differently in a minute but I stopped wearing them quite a while ago. The newer watches seem to keep better time which to me is the primary factor......but a nice late 80s 1016 would be cool....(temptation).

[Rascasse]

I had an Explorer 2 in the early '80s and a Daytona in the early '90s and I used to joke that Rolex time ended up making me 5 mins late because they always ran slow.

I now have a new Daytona (SS/ceramic) and a polar Exp 2 and they run perfectly. I can no longer make the Rolex late excuse! :)

[bjoe9]

So consensus is vintage is like that?

[SearChart]

If it's this irregular I'd say the hairspring might have a slight bent or there is a wrong center of gravity in the balance.

[JohnBaker3]

My 5513 vintage 1970 has been regulated to +2 sec/day....

I think you need a third opinion by someone who specializes in vintage...

Good luck!

[Valenciawatchrepair]

Vintage watches are a bit hard to deal with, but -39 sec stands out to me. The tiniest foreign object can have a big influence on the time keeping. Even something that's hard to see under magnification. Otherwise, I'd think the hairspring has some sort of damage or magnetism. Magnetism is a huge problem and it's the first thing I check on a mechanical watch.

[bjoe9]

i've seen the first tech demagnetize the watch, so i don't think it's that. Is it worth sending to RSC in Toronto?

[Fredrik]

Originally Posted by bjoe9

So consensus is vintage is like that?

No, my three vintage Rolexes(all from the 70s) with 1575 movements are all consistent and I have had them regulated to run from +1 to +2 seconds fast per day by my local RSC.

[mnbookman]

Originally Posted by Fredrik

No, my three vintage Rolexes(all from the 70s) with 1575 movements are all consistent and I have had them regulated to run from +1 to +2 seconds fast per day by my local RSC.

What kind of delta does it have?

[padi56]

Originally Posted by SearChart

If it's this irregular I'd say the hairspring might have a slight bent or there is a wrong center of gravity in the balance.

Have to agree or something simple like a bit of oil on the hairspring or even a weak mainspring.

[Fredrik]

Originally Posted by mnbookman

What kind of delta does it have?

Do you mean how much it varies from day to day? I have no idea. I check at most once a week, and at the end of the month they all are never more than one minute fast. I have to set the date anyway about every second month and I usually change watch then.

Oh, if I remember I position them over night in a favorable position to get even better accuracy but they all have different positions they should be placed in for that so I tend to forget.

[mnbookman]

Originally Posted by Fredrik

Do you mean how much it varies from day to day? I have no idea. I check at most once a week, and at the end of the month they all are never more than one minute fast. I have to set the date anyway about every second month and I usually change watch then.

Oh, if I remember I position them over night in a favorable position to get even better accuracy but they all have different positions they should be placed in for that so I tend to forget.

No, that would be actual rate.

Delta is the max difference in rate in different positions. Rolexes are typically checked in five positions at two states of wind, those being zero hour (full wind) and -24 hours.

Different calibers have different maximum allowed deltas in after sales service.


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[SearChart]

Originally Posted by mnbookman

No, that would be actual rate.

Delta is the max difference in rate in different positions. Rolexes are typically checked in five positions at two states of wind, those being zero hour (full wind) and -24 hours.

Different calibers have different maximum allowed deltas in after sales service.

[shortstop]

Although I have no idea what the delta numbers are, my 1971 made OysterDate Precision 6694 manual wind maintains about 2-3 sec fast. The balance shaft and a couple gears were replaced a couple years ago. I also have a newer 2006 Datejust in 18kt and ss which runs about 4-5 sec / day fast. I have a few other watches including a 1954 Girard-Perregaux and a Hamilton 992b pocket watch that maintain chronometer accuracy. There is nothing inherent in the design or manufacture of top quality vintage watches that means they cannot be accurate.

[Fredrik]

Originally Posted by mnbookman

No, that would be actual rate.

Delta is the max difference in rate in different positions. Rolexes are typically checked in five positions at two states of wind, those being zero hour (full wind) and -24 hours.

Different calibers have different maximum allowed deltas in after sales service.

Oh, I see.
I do have a timegrapher and could check the 1675 I am currently wearing, the other two are in my safe deposit box, I could check them when I switch to them the next time. I would assume the greatest difference in rates would be between crown up and face up.

What I usually do is check the average rate monthly and then ask to have it regulated down to +1s/day telling them what rate I have currently. So if it is running +5s/day a few months after a service I tell them to shave off 4s/day. That would probably be an average then over the positions? I have never gotten a print out after service or after regulation.

[Ron P]

The 1530 - 1570 series can be tricky at times but when knowing what to do I beleive it can be brought under control in 99.9% of all cases.

Your watchamer should put it on a modern Witschi which can measure continuoisly over 24 hours the amplitude and rate.
This would help spotting what is wrong. Fe. A dip every 24 hour points most likely to an issue with a bad spot when pushing the datewheel to the next day, variations every hour or every 5 - 7 minutes, ponting to the hourwheel or third wheel etc.

Also these models are very known for wear in the barrelbridge and platine by the barrel arbre pivots. Also wear in the barrel itself by the arbre can lead to bad timing results. There is bery little room between the barrel and the bridge - platine, so if there is wear, the barrel will touch the bridge or platine leading to a decreas in driving power.

There are some more critical points which an experienced rolex watchmaker should be able to test or exclude.

Maybe swap the balance with a know good balance as a test to exclude any issues with your balance? A well stocked vintage repair centre should have these parts in stock.

All the best,

RonP
Watchmaker