Thoughts on Resale Value of AP vs Hublot and Comparison in General

[911Turbo]

As some of you know I just recently purchased my first AP watch. I am thrilled with it and have been enjoying it!

One of my co-workers is also a watch nut and a discussion came up as to the similarities between Genta's Royal Oak design and the Hublot. So much in fact, that the only compliments I've received on my new watch to this point has been "Oh, thats really nice watch! Is that a Hublot?" Not that I care so much - but it was interesting. Any of you experience that?

I am curious to hear the thoughts of the forum on why AP commands such a higher purchase price and also in resale vs. Hublot?

With two watch brands that are very similar in look, it seems that Hublot is constantly innovating and developing new designs around this same theme while AP is just doing the same and raising prices.

Just curious...

[tyler1980]

[tyler1980]

Rather than retype here are my thoughts on what Hublot does better than AP...
https://www.rolexforums.com/showpost...5&postcount=78

Other than that they are very derivative
Big bangs are very similar to AP ROO
Spirit of Big Bang is very RM
Classic Fusion is very Royal Oak
The MP line is very Urwerk

Its like buying name brand vs generic to me

[LAFLARE]

Originally Posted by tyler1980

Rather than retype here are my thoughts on what Hublot does better than AP...
https://www.rolexforums.com/showpost...5&postcount=78

Other than that they are very derivative
Big bangs are very similar to AP ROO
Spirit of Big Bang is very RM
Classic Fusion is very Royal Oak
The MP line is very Urwerk

Its like buying name brand vs generic to me

Well..that post took a tight turn. I read "let's take a second to talk about all the good things about Hublot" and saw a decent amount of text after. Had me going there for a second

[LAFLARE]

Hublot tends to be "innovative" with designs, but often those innovative designs have already been released. You will see that there is not a lot of originality with Hublot, along with its absent heritage, they don't propose many reasons to demand a high price. There may be individuals who purchase Hublot, sure, but the resell is horrendous because the demand is not there.

I do believe I was skimming along another forum earlier this year and an individual claiming to be the Hublot CEO rep (of maybe North America? Can't quite Remember) came and chimed in on a AP vs Hublot thread. I do recall the only statement he was pretty adamant and proud of was that Hublot supposedly came up with the idea of putting watches on a rubber strap. But then again, that could be false as well.

But here you are..setting yourself up on an AP sub. Maybe you'll get different responses from a Hublot community. Anyone know where to find them?

[rolex75216]

Both can be good, I think it depends on the particular piece and what the market is doing at that time. Not an easy question to answer.

[rolex75216]

Originally Posted by tyler1980

So Funny!

[tyler1980]

Originally Posted by LAFLARE

Hublot tends to be "innovative" with designs, but often those innovative designs have already been released. You will see that there is not a lot of originality with Hublot, along with its absent heritage, they don't propose many reasons to demand a high price. There may be individuals who purchase Hublot, sure, but the resell is horrendous because the demand is not there.

I do believe I was skimming along another forum earlier this year and an individual claiming to be the Hublot CEO rep (of maybe North America? Can't quite Remember) came and chimed in on a AP vs Hublot thread. I do recall the only statement he was pretty adamant and proud of was that Hublot supposedly came up with the idea of putting watches on a rubber strap. But then again, that could be false as well.

But here you are..setting yourself up on an AP sub. Maybe you'll get different responses from a Hublot community. Anyone know where to find them?

Hublot is fine, where they get on my nerves is trying to insert themselves on the level of AP or PP. They are not, no matter how many times JCB said it and it doesn't make it true. Where they actually are in the watch hierarchy is fine and nothing wrong with that, but stop trying to be more than what you are.

[LAFLARE]

Originally Posted by tyler1980

Hublot is fine, where they get on my nerves is trying to insert themselves on the level of AP or PP. They are not, no matter how many times JCB said it and it doesn't make it true. Where they actually are in the watch hierarchy is fine and nothing wrong with that, but stop trying to be more than what you are.

You're right. It's wrong of me to bash on Hublot like that. They do have super cool and original model names for their watches

[tyler1980]

Originally Posted by LAFLARE

You're right. It's wrong of me to bash on Hublot like that. They do have super cool and original model names for their watches

The whole genesis of the brand started with their name, "Hublot", which is French for "porthole" and then they released a watch that looked like one. The only problem was the Royal Oak due to most accounts was inspired by a porthole on a ship or divers helmet or a combination of both and the Nautilus was definitely inspired by a ship's porthole and had already been around for quite some time. They started from day one creating "homage" watches but put it on a strap instead and called it original. Until they day they create something totally original (not counting magic gold) I just can't get on board with them.

Resale is directly related to the history and heritage of the brand and Hublot doesnt have any, to answer the OP's question.

[Rmoor]

New AP 44 steel retail is $33,400 I believe. Before it was discontinued you could buy unworn from a grey dealer for $23,500 complete. If you were to sell this watch in mint condition you would probably be in the range of $20k-$21.5k. So you would lose roughly $2,000-$3,500.

New 44 Hublot Big Bang evolution retail $13,400. Bought mine new from AD for $8,800. If I were to sell my hublot I would get around $7,000- $7,500. The loss would be around $1,300-$1,800.

The way I see it is I will lose less on the hublot than the AP. I own and enjoy both models mentioned above and the pricing I used is from my personal experience.

And I don't believe hublot loses value so to say because of brand heritage because Richard mille has been around for a shorter amount of time and most Richard mille watches hold their value well. I believe it's partly due to production and availability. Hublot has stock and you can find most models easily. Try that with a Richard mille.

[APRolexguy]

Originally Posted by Rmoor

New AP 44 steel retail is $33,400 I believe. Before it was discontinued you could buy unworn from a grey dealer for $23,500 complete. If you were to sell this watch in mint condition you would probably be in the range of $20k-$21.5k. So you would lose roughly $2,000-$3,500.

New 44 Hublot Big Bang evolution retail $13,400. Bought mine new from AD for $8,800. If I were to sell my hublot I would get around $7,000- $7,500. The loss would be around $1,300-$1,800.

The way I see it is I will lose less on the hublot than the AP. I own and enjoy both models mentioned above and the pricing I used is from my personal experience.

And I don't believe hublot loses value so to say because of brand heritage because Richard mille has been around for a shorter amount of time and most Richard mille watches hold their value well. I believe it's partly due to production and availability. Hublot has stock and you can find most models easily. Try that with a Richard mille.

Heritage is overrated in the watch industry when it comes on to price. Richard Mille is proof of that, alot more young people are coming into wealth now and they are hardly persuaded by what year a watch company was founded. mostly older gentlemen care about that.

In the end it comes down to the same thing, supply and demand.

[PJ S]

Originally Posted by LAFLARE

Hublot tends to be "innovative" with designs, but often those innovative designs have already been released. You will see that there is not a lot of originality with Hublot, along with its absent heritage, they don't propose many reasons to demand a high price.

Please remind us of Roger Smith’s or Kari Voutilainen’s “heritage”. Or even Gronefeld’s.
Hublot did indeed partner a gold with a rubber strap first – twenty years before JC Biver had anything to do with the company.

http://www.elitetraveler.com/leaders...brands-passion
http://www.hublot.com/en/news/mr-jea...iver-biography

The watches may not appeal due to (misplaced) snobbery/brand bias, but there’s no denying what the man has accomplished in his 40 years working in the industry, for each of the brands he’s been associated with.

[Wesley Crusher]

I like some Hublot models. Their new Ferrari models, for example, look much nicer to me than many ROOs.

I think some AP owners are quick to bash Hublot because Hublot is often associated with AP (And for good reason. Outside of the WIS world, look at the average AP and Hublot buyers... same group) and AP owners may be a bit hurt that AP is being associated with a “lesser” brand. There is no doubt that AP has a longer, much more impressive history and has done more for the watch world than Hublot probably ever will, but I don’t think that justifies the bashing that is seen here and other places.

Regarding resale, yes, Hublot is really bad. If you want one, buy at a steep discount.

[tyler1980]

Originally Posted by Wesley Crusher

I like some Hublot models. Their new Ferrari models, for example, look much nicer to me than many ROOs.

I think some AP owners are quick to bash Hublot because Hublot is often associated with AP (And for good reason. Outside of the WIS world, look at the average AP and Hublot buyers... same group) and AP owners may be a bit hurt that AP is being associated with a “lesser” brand. There is no doubt that AP has a longer, much more impressive history and has done more for the watch world than Hublot probably ever will, but I don’t think that justifies the bashing that is seen here and other places.

Regarding resale, yes, Hublot is really bad. If you want one, buy at a steep discount.

It is a big risk to launch the Royal Oak, a revolutionary watch that had never before been seen. It takes no risk to launch the very first Hublot which borrowed many elements from this watch after it had become successful. The ROO was similar as it was revolutionary at the time, then came the big bang.

Hublot then inserts themselves into the AP and PP conversation like they are peers which turns a lot of us off. Invicta doesnt try to be Rolex for example or maybe Tudor doesnt try to be Rolex. They share ownership but are distinct brands with different markets. They are similar looking but they don't pretend to be in the same league.

Thats my thoughts at least. Its about respect and credit and less about the fact Hublot is cheaper or "lesser" as i own watches below the level of Hublot so im not a snob in that sense. Its funny as people point out the fact the Piaget Polo is a obvious derivative of a patek or AP sports watch and everyone sees it but say the same thing about Hublot and it creates a big debate. Its the same thing.

[tyler1980]

Originally Posted by APRolexguy

Heritage is overrated in the watch industry when it comes on to price. Richard Mille is proof of that, alot more young people are coming into wealth now and they are hardly persuaded by what year a watch company was founded. mostly older gentlemen care about that.

In the end it comes down to the same thing, supply and demand.

heritage can be replaced by being truly innovative which RM is or like any of the obscure small brands which PJ mentioned. You have to be innovative to survive in that case. So heritage is important as that is what Rolex thrives on, but innovation matters too. I guess a combination of both is probably the best.

I will give Hublot credit for their inventory though. I went by the boutique in Burlington arcade and they had everything. AP has hardly stock in London, for sure no where near what Hublot has. I really do appreciate the fact they do produce what people want where as AP doesnt and finding certain models is almost impossible.

[AK797]

I think Biver took the general criticism that the Big Bang was just an AP copy with a generic ETA movement to heart and since then they are trying to be innovative and even if that borders on gimmicky at times they are trying to establish themselves more legitimately in this market. I think a price reduction to between Rolex and AP should be where they position themselves. Plus as been said they do seem to have watches available to try on which is increasingly becoming one of the most important characteristics of a brand. If their resale was stronger I might have already.

[tyler1980]

Originally Posted by AK797

I think Biver took the general criticism that the Big Bang was just an AP copy with a generic ETA movement to heart and since then they are trying to be innovative and even if that borders on gimmicky at times they are trying to establish themselves more legitimately in this market. I think a price reduction to between Rolex and AP should be where they position themselves. Plus as been said they do seem to have watches available to try on which is increasingly becoming one of the most important characteristics of a brand. If their resale was stronger I might have already.

well put. Im telling you their boutique in london, even at its current temporary location is impressive. I haven't checked out any other places but i was very surprised.

[VICI]

Hu-blow your money

It can be a different and possibly interesting watch to look at, but it’s a resale killer.

As with any brand, if you buy at retail, most likely you better hold onto it.

[2nastie]

The simplest way put is the history, lineage, and background of a) AP b) the Royal Oak... Unfortunately to me and to many, Hublot has no substance behind their brand and design. They are a modern watch brand that has their key watch derived off the success of another brand and another time piece. Making something look fancy and pricing it high doesn't make it on par with another brand.

Just like a modern company making a super fast modern super car or hyper car doesn't make it equally valuable as a Ferrari. A Ferrari is a Ferrari because of its heritage.

... which makes me kind of disappointed that they partnered up with Hublot. I think they could complement AP a lot. Or even Patek works better for that matter.


However for what Hublot has produced and the overall market reception of the brand from the average consumer, they have done well for themselves... so kudos to that.

EDIT: I do like their innovation with various materials... they should work on everything else. Just IMO haha.

[Bushido]

I've been in a couple Hublot boutiques and found the experience pleasant each time. Huge variety of options. Some, I wonder how much LSD the designers took before thinking the idea struck them as well thought. Others, I have been quite impressed by in materials, aesthetics, and construction.

Their Magic Gold for instance, really impressive in my opinion. 18K gold, muted tone, and will not scratch, ding, nor dent? I find that to be pretty novel and revolutionary. Just my opinion and others may vary of course.

[LAFLARE]

Originally Posted by PJ S

Please remind us of Roger Smith’s or Kari Voutilainen’s “heritage”. Or even Gronefeld’s.
Hublot did indeed partner a gold with a rubber strap first – twenty years before JC Biver had anything to do with the company.

http://www.elitetraveler.com/leaders...brands-passion
http://www.hublot.com/en/news/mr-jea...iver-biography

The watches may not appeal due to (misplaced) snobbery/brand bias, but there’s no denying what the man has accomplished in his 40 years working in the industry, for each of the brands he’s been associated with.

I offer my sincere apologies to the Hublot group

[Wesley Crusher]

Originally Posted by tyler1980

It is a big risk to launch the Royal Oak, a revolutionary watch that had never before been seen. It takes no risk to launch the very first Hublot which borrowed many elements from this watch after it had become successful. The ROO was similar as it was revolutionary at the time, then came the big bang.

Hublot then inserts themselves into the AP and PP conversation like they are peers which turns a lot of us off. Invicta doesnt try to be Rolex for example or maybe Tudor doesnt try to be Rolex. They share ownership but are distinct brands with different markets. They are similar looking but they don't pretend to be in the same league.

Thats my thoughts at least. Its about respect and credit and less about the fact Hublot is cheaper or "lesser" as i own watches below the level of Hublot so im not a snob in that sense. Its funny as people point out the fact the Piaget Polo is a obvious derivative of a patek or AP sports watch and everyone sees it but say the same thing about Hublot and it creates a big debate. Its the same thing.

Regarding the launch of the Royal Oak, I agree. That's why I said that AP did more for the watch world than Hublot probably ever will. The launch of the Royal Oak is probably one of, if not the most important events in modern luxury watch history. Does Hublot's resemblance take anything away from that? Not in my opinion.

I don't think it's worth it to get into details about shared design characteristics as we probably won't change each others minds, but I'll reiterate my earlier comment that I believe all of the bashing is unfriendly.

[GB-man]

[LAFLARE]

Originally Posted by Wesley Crusher

Regarding the launch of the Royal Oak, I agree. That's why I said that AP did more for the watch world than Hublot probably ever will. The launch of the Royal Oak is probably one of, if not the most important events in modern luxury watch history. Does Hublot's resemblance take anything away from that? Not in my opinion.

I don't think it's worth it to get into details about shared design characteristics as we probably won't change each others minds, but I'll reiterate my earlier comment that I believe all of the bashing is unfriendly.

Agreed

[Star Ferry]

Hublot lacks much of a secondary market, similar to Zenith.

I actually looked into getting a Big Bang. But even at gray market pricing, it felt too expensive. Besides UNICO models that retail for over 20k, I believe Big Bangs use ETA movements

If there were some crazy deal, like a friend saying "Hey, a dealer in Kowloon offered me $4,600 for this, will you take it for $4,800?" then I'd probably buy, experience the #Hublot lifestyle for a few days, then flip for a small loss

Generally they are not a WIS-oriented brand. People buy them. Those buyers apparently don't care (or don't know) about the resale value. People on forums will continue to bash them, and Hublot/LVMH will continue to print money

[goog53]

I am have no desire for any Hublot. Numerous times I have walked by their boutiques while on vacation and never even considered stopping in. JC Biver seems like a really cool guy and I love his passion for watches and is a marketing genius but for me that brand is absolute crap. Just my 2cents as I am not some watch snob and often wear swatches, casio g-shock, and a Quartz Omega Seamaster from many moons ago.

[Xerxes77]

Hublot it's more fashion watch for me.
yes you have right for most people AP is Hublot.
I received many compliments to my "Hublot"who are in fact AP ROO rg))))

[mickyd329]

Jus a few of my thoughts..

Many have opinions as to what drives Hublot resale values, but one thing is for certain. Resale is terrible!

They have their place in the watch world. Not AP or PP level, but somewhere around the Panerai range?

Regardless of what people say about the brand, their marketing has absolutely worked. Brought many new buyers into the luxury watch market. At the end of the day, it's good for the watch industry in general as it helps bring more awareness.

[WatchingAustin]

IMO Hublot is an exercise in marketing and nothing more. Little heritage, designs that were pioneered by others, and modified ETA movements for 10K? No thanks.

Whoever said Hublot buyers and AP buyers are same crowd most know a whole different set of people from myself. Most Hublot buyers I know can't tell you the model or anything discernible about their watch beyond the brand. They would also never spend 20K on a watch without diamonds, gold, or a name that everyone knew. At least the AP owners I know can tell me the model of their watch.

Again - these are all my opinions.