?’s regarding non AD purchases

[jps3b]

Happy Monday all. Forgive me if this has been covered in the past but I’m wondering if anyone can shed some light regarding non AD purchases.

Between the wife and I, we have purchased 8 Rolex time pieces and all have been through “Authorized Dealers”. I’m in the market for another watch, and I see one can save considerable money if bought on the gray market.

My main concern is warranty (I hear conflicting info), and also, I’ve been told (by an AD by the way) that if Rolex knows you bought a watch at a discount, and it goes in for service, they will add charge you the difference.

Thank you in advanced for your time :)

For reference; 16610 (1997), 16613 (1999), 16610lv (2007), 326938 (2017), 126600 (2017), Pelagos in house movement. Wife has a TT OP and a YM platinum bezel.

[William.L.]

not true at all. I'll pm you.

[rossi46]

Originally Posted by jperez3

My main concern is warranty (I hear conflicting info), and also, I’ve been told (by an AD by the way) that if Rolex knows you bought a watch at a discount, and it goes in for service, they will add charge you the difference.

Sometimes you need to have a little bit of healthy skepticism (and a better BS meter).

Nearly 1mil new Rolex watches get sold every year and that has been the case for years and years and years now. By what mechanism would Rolex find out, prove, and then follow through with such a thing? Does that seem like something even remotely plausible for Rolex to do?

[Rrpdc]

I would never use that AD. either lying or does not know what they are doing.

[mjclark32]

Not one bit true and the warranty is transferable and international

Had to send my OP39 in for a crystal last year that I bought from DSW, not a single issue

[watchwatcher]

Originally Posted by jperez3

My main concern is warranty (I hear conflicting info), and also, I’ve been told (by an AD by the way) that if Rolex knows you bought a watch at a discount, and it goes in for service, they will add charge you the difference.

[jrs146]

Wow rumors have hit an all time high and low


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[JacksonStone]

Originally Posted by jperez3

I’ve been told (by an AD by the way) that if Rolex knows you bought a watch at a discount, and it goes in for service, they will add charge you the difference.

Wow. Some ADs are either really stupid or real a-holes.

[jps3b]

Ok guys. Thanks for the replies. With all the input, I’m extremely close to buying a watch from OCrolexguy.

[THC]

Originally Posted by jperez3

Ok guys. Thanks for the replies. With all the input, I’m extremely close to buying a watch from OCrolexguy.

Great reviews here in the Who’s Who... post pics when acquired

[GB-man]

Patrick is a top seller you’re in good hands.

A shame your AD thought you were an idiot even after you were such a loyal customer

[dcash0615]

Originally Posted by jperez3

Happy Monday all. Forgive me if this has been covered in the past but I’m wondering if anyone can shed some light regarding non AD purchases.

Between the wife and I, we have purchased 8 Rolex time pieces and all have been through “Authorized Dealers”. I’m in the market for another watch, and I see one can save considerable money if bought on the gray market.

My main concern is warranty (I hear conflicting info), and also, I’ve been told (by an AD by the way) that if Rolex knows you bought a watch at a discount, and it goes in for service, they will add charge you the difference.

Thank you in advanced for your time :)

For reference; 16610 (1997), 16613 (1999), 16610lv (2007), 326938 (2017), 126600 (2017), Pelagos in house movement. Wife has a TT OP and a YM platinum bezel.

You have obviously already been informed on the validity of the non AD purchase information you were told.

Even if it were true how would Rolex know what you paid for the watch (discount or not) from a non AD, private party? Almost all of these transactions are private deals between seller and buyer and no paperwork is exchanged to document a sales price. Given this, how would Rolex Service Center calculate the additional amount to charge you?

OCRolexguy is great. You are in great hands. Post pictures once you buy.

[AboutTime]

I've done several deals with Patrick and they've all been great!

[JacksonStone]

Originally Posted by dcash0615

Given this, how would Rolex Service Center calculate the additional amount to charge you?

Beyond that, such a move isn't legal in the first place. Rolex (or an RSC) would have no grounds to charge money without providing goods or services in exchange.

[jps3b]

Again, thank you all for the prompt advice. In fairness to the AD, I was informed about the Rolex “add charge” when I bought my first watch back in 1997. It was at Fred’s in Cesar’s Forum shops which isn’t there anymore. I bought two that day and asked for them to eat the tax. That’s when the sales associate explained that they were unable to discount watches and if so, I could be liable for the difference once it went back for service. I was 26 and it was my first high end watch purchase so how was I supposed to know. But you all have really put my mind at ease. I really don’t see the need to buy from an AD ever again. My last two purchases have been from Geary’s in the Century City mall and they treated me very well. I can’t say enough about them. I have been in communication with Patrick and you guys are all correct, he’s seems to be a true professional. Really appreciate all the input and as soon as I get the new time piece, I’ll post pics.

[Beckster]

Waiting eagerly to see pics. Good luck with the purchase. From what I hear you should be in good hands.

[AK797]

Wow that's a nice creative lie, these guys will all be running for congress when their ADs get shut down.

[jbrown15]

I had my AD in Vancouver give me a hard time because I mentioned that I bought my wife's Air King when we were on holidays in the Caribbean. He said I'd have a hard time getting it serviced by Rolex Canada.

My BS radar was on high alert after that comment.

[JR16]

I’ve noticed there are generally 3 types of ADs: 1) smart/knowledgeable/honest, 2) slick used car-salespeople types , and 3) genuinely ignorant, uninformed type.

The challenge is deciding in the first 60 seconds which one you are dealing with.


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[brandrea]

Originally Posted by watchwatcher

[JacksonStone]

Originally Posted by JR16

I’ve noticed there are generally 3 types of ADs: 1) smart/knowledgeable/honest, 2) slick used car-salespeople types , and 3) genuinely ignorant, uninformed type.

The challenge is deciding in the first 60 seconds which one you are dealing with.

Excellent observation.

[Rocket_Man]

Some AD's will say anything to coerce you to buy from them. This claim that somehow Rolex knows what the AD sold the watch for and somehow will bill you for the balance is a new one on me. Pure utter lies. Here is some truth...

- The AD's own the watches outright. They are not 'on consignment' from Rolex. They pay ~60% of the MSRP on the watch to Rolex and the AD owns it. The balance ~40% is potential profit for the AD. So they do have some room to give a discount and still make a profit. They do have bills to pay of course. Rolex policy does not allow 'sales' but discounts are given regularly. They don't report the sales price to Rolex. Rolex must realize that discounts are happening, especially on PM models. But AD's are independent owners and operate their business how they see fit, while trying to stay on the good side on Rolex policies. I'm sure they don't advertise discounts, but a buyer can normally get a discount if you know the market for that model.

- Rolex warranties are fully transferable. If you bought a warrantied watch from your neighbor, or a Trusted Seller you get the balance of the warranty. Now some Grey Market sellers like Jomashop acquire the watch in such a way that they do not come with the Rolex warranty card and warranty. They tell you this up front and normally offer their own warranty. But the vast majority of Trusted Sellers (if selling BNIB) are passing along the Rolex warranty. Sometimes it might have a name already filled in, but it is transferable.

If you are looking for a commodity Rolex (like a DJ) you may be able to get it from an AD reasonably close to what a TS may offer it. But hard to get watches are a different thing. There are many threads on this.

Research the seller and after you have satisfied that, you should not have a problem buying this way.

AD's are sales people and some less scrupulous sales people will say anything to make the sale even telling fibs like you have seen. On one side I can understand the pressure to sell, but on the other side, how do I trust them with a high dollar purchase? If my AD told me that I think I'd shop elsewhere.

TS's have feedback given on these forums by some of the most knowledgeable buyers. This process keeps this system more honest and transparent than any ADs.

[Tools]

Originally Posted by jperez3

. . . It was at Fred’s in Cesar’s Forum shops which isn’t there anymore. I bought two that day and asked for them to eat the tax. That’s when the sales associate explained that they were unable to discount watches and if so, I could be liable for the difference once it went back for service. . . .

Perhaps things like this are reasons why this shop is no longer in business.

You should know that a true Gray Market watch will not have a valid warranty since they are procured outside the distributor chain. However, many of the resellers here sell AD purchases with remaining warranty.

[JacksonStone]

Originally Posted by Rocket_Man

- Rolex warranties are fully transferable. If you bought a warrantied watch from your neighbor, or a Trusted Seller you get the balance of the warranty.

I know this is a source of controversy, but the language of the US Rolex warranty (not the international warranty) excludes third-party "intervention," which could be interpreted to exclude third-party sales. Most anecdotal evidence suggests this clause is not enforced, but it should at least be pointed out to someone considering buying from a non-AD.

[Rocket_Man]

Originally Posted by JacksonStone

I know this is a source of controversy, but the language of the US Rolex warranty (not the international warranty) excludes third-party "intervention," which could be interpreted to exclude third-party sales. Most anecdotal evidence suggests this clause is not enforced, but it should at least be pointed out to someone considering buying from a non-AD.

I think in the US the Magnusson-Moss act would require it is transferable, otherwise the warranty has to be stated as such up front. It can't be a little bit transferable. It either is or isn't.

I think the 3rd party intervention is referring to modifications done to the watch by unauthorized watchmakers. Like aftermarket dial, bezel, etc...

[JacksonStone]

Originally Posted by Rocket_Man

I think in the US the Magnusson-Moss act would require it is transferable, otherwise the warranty has to be stated as such up front. It can't be a little bit transferable. It either is or isn't.

I think the 3rd party intervention is referring to modifications done to the watch by unauthorized watchmakers. Like aftermarket dial, bezel, etc...

You're right. I had to go out in the weeds on this one. Here's the lowdown. (TLDR version: Rolex designates its warranty as "full," meaning it it is fully transferable to all consumers during the duration of the warranty, provided the watch was originally purchased by a consumer from an authorized dealer.)

- Rolex designates its warranty as "full."

- 15 U.S.C. § 2303(a)(1) states that full warranties must meet the minimum requirements for warranties, as stated in § 2304.

- 15 U.S.C. § 2304(a) states the minimum requirements for full warranties.

- 15 U.S.C. § 2304(b)(4) states, "The duties under subsection (a) extend from the warrantor to each person who is a consumer with respect to the consumer product."

- 15 U.S.C. § 2301(3) includes in its definition of consumer "any person to whom such product is transferred during the duration of an implied or written warranty (or service contract) applicable to the product." The definition expressly excludes buyers who procure goods for resale; ergo, grey sellers would not be considered consumers, and therefore can be excluded under a full warranty.

- Exclusion of transferability to certain consumers would render the warranty limited, rather than full, pursuant to U.S.C. § 2303(a)(2); the warranty would also have to be designated as "limited." Since the warranty is conspicuously stated as full, it must adhere to the transferability requirements of 15 U.S.C. § 2304(b)(4), which apply to all consumers as defined in 15 U.S. Code § 2301(3).

Therefore, I agree with you that mention of third party intervention doesn't apply to consumers. It could still apply to grey market sellers, though, since they are not consumers. That could be redundant, since the warranty expressly says that, in order to be valid, the watch must be a sold by an AD to the consumer whose name appears on the card. (It doesn't say the person seeking repair under the warranty must be the person whose name is on the card.) That automatically excludes grey sales.

Thanks for bringing this to my attention.

[No SUBctitute]

Originally Posted by Tools

You should know that a true Gray Market watch will not have a valid warranty since they are procured outside the distributor chain. However, many of the resellers here sell AD purchases with remaining warranty.

What?

I thought a grey market purchase was purchasing from an individual or store which deals in Rolex watches but which is not an AD.

If buying from a trusted seller isn't "grey market" then what is it called?

Also, what are you then saying is a grey market purchase? And how are watches procured outside the distributor chain, as you say, and who sells them? Alan Furman is a real watch store that offers Rolexes without a warranty. Is this grey market? Did they get them outside the distributor chain?

[multimedia]

Originally Posted by jperez3

...I’ve been told (by an AD by the way) that if Rolex knows you bought a watch at a discount, and it goes in for service, they will add charge you the difference.

Please inform this AD that here in HK it's pretty much standard to ask for a discount at the official Rolex store(s). Obviously they won't give it to you on the most popular models. But early last year, I was given 5% (standard, used to be 8%) even on a BLNR.

So definitely not true!

(I've had many watches in for service at the official Rolex service center in HK. And no, they have never ever charged me the difference).

Cheers,
Joe

[tyler1980]

Originally Posted by JR16

I’ve noticed there are generally 3 types of ADs: 1) smart/knowledgeable/honest, 2) slick used car-salespeople types , and 3) genuinely ignorant, uninformed type.

The challenge is deciding in the first 60 seconds which one you are dealing with.


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that is the truth

[tyler1980]

Originally Posted by Tools

Perhaps things like this are reasons why this shop is no longer in business.

You should know that a true Gray Market watch will not have a valid warranty since they are procured outside the distributor chain. However, many of the resellers here sell AD purchases with remaining warranty.

with that definition im actually curious how many watches would be considered grey then? Rolex is a pretty tight ship and that would require a watch to get out somewhere between Rolex themselves and the AD the watch was sold to. It would have to be Rolex doing this in that case right?