A born Pepsi or “made” Pepsi. Any difference in value?

[DoctorA]

Hello fellow TRF folks

I want to get a Pepsi. Does it matter value wise if I get a 16710 black insert and put a Pepsi insert on it vs getting a Pepsi born 16710?

Thanks in advance!

[s14roller]

I'd imagine there would be...when I had a 16710, I specifically looked for a 16710B.

[SteelSubmarinerGuy]

From collectibility stand point I’d say yeah, if you care about that part not so much


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[ttomczak]

To you to wear it, no...

I think a lot of people switch up inserts to get a different look as long as it isn’t sold as such.

[SteelSubmarinerGuy]

Originally Posted by SteelSubmarinerGuy

From collectibility stand point I’d say yeah, if you care about that part not so much


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If you don’t care about collectibility then not so much...


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[springer]

There was no bezel insert coding on the USA warranty papers prior to 1998/99 so how would you know? All GMTs from the 16750, 16760 and early 16710/16700s had the A coding (or A30) within the USA style number found on the warranty paper. Also, many other sport models contained the same A30 coding in the style number.

As far as later insert colors go, inserts were easily changed and I have not seen anything significant from many years of ownership that would indicate price variations between the inserts colors. It might might a difference to those anal enough to need a certain color coded on their warranty paper, but to most it does not.

[henrylee]

You can only differentiate on the original paper certificate. I would prefer buying the better condition watch.

[rushca01]

Originally Posted by springer

There was no bezel insert coding on the USA warranty papers prior to 1998/99 so how would you know? All GMTs from the 16750, 16760 and early 16710/16700s had the A coding (or A30) within the USA style number found on the warranty paper. Also, many other sport models contained the same A30 coding in the style number.



As far as later insert colors go, inserts were easily changed and I have not seen anything significant from many years of ownership that would indicate price variations between the inserts colors. It might might a difference to those anal enough to need a certain color coded on their warranty paper, but to most it does not.

Originally Posted by henrylee

You can only differentiate on the original paper certificate. I would prefer buying the better condition watch.

Agree with both these statements.

Bought this last September right in the middle of the price increase for 5900. It originally had a black insert. I sourced both a Pepsi and coke insert for it (250). I sent it la watch weeks and they touched up the case (750). All told I’m into the watch 6900 and have three insert choices.

[breitlings]

i'd say a near 0 amount.

[g-boac]

If you are buying a loose watch, then you can't tell. If buying a GMT-Master II originally sold in USA as a full set, it is fair to consider this: the warranty papers indicate the original configuration of the watch from the factory. It ultimately is up to the market to determine whether this has value and how much; but generally speaking, you can expect a given attribute to have some valuation.

Condition being equal, I think it's reasonably fair to expect you'll find that sellers will ask, and buyers will pay, a reasonable premium for an original ("born") Pepsi. All three variants have their own unique looks, but the Pepsi bezel traces its look to the look of the original 6542.

As others have said here, when it comes to enjoying the watch, all three inserts are interchangeable, regardless of what came from the factory. Incidentally the codes on the papers were:

16710A = Coke
16710B = Pepsi
16710N = Black ("Noir")

A couple other points: the first generation GMT-Master II, the 16760 "fat lady" only came in the black/red Coke bezel. Approximate date of production 1983-1988.

The final generation GMT-Master, the 16700, only came in blue/red Pepsi bezel.

The second (and final) generation GMT-Master II, the 16710 was the one that came in all three variants of bezel, and overall, had the richest variation of parts throughout its production lifecycle. In addition the featuring Coke, Pepsi, and black bezels, this reference featured tritium, Luminova (SWISS -only dials), and Super-Luminova ("Swiss Made") dials. It also featured two distinct movements: the 3185 movement for most of the production, and a small batch of 3186 movements that went into the final production models. The cases featured lug holes (up through the K-serial) and no lug holes; while bracelets featured both stamped and solid endlinks.

Any way you go, the 16710 is a watch you can't collect too many of! ;)

[Andad]

JP nailed it.

[fskywalker]

Originally Posted by henrylee

You can only differentiate on the original paper certificate. I would prefer buying the better condition watch.

This!

[2th_doc]

https://youtu.be/qvV0SMY4is8


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[BrazenC5]

Originally Posted by 2th_doc

https://youtu.be/qvV0SMY4is8


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Lulz. Listen to this distinguished expert, he knows his $h!t.

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[red1108nyc]

Condition of the watch matters most for me.

[springer]

Originally Posted by g-boac

If you are buying a loose watch, then you can't tell. If buying a GMT-Master II originally sold in USA as a full set, it is fair to consider this: the warranty papers indicate the original configuration of the watch from the factory. It ultimately is up to the market to determine whether this has value and how much; but generally speaking, you can expect a given attribute to have some valuation.

Condition being equal, I think it's reasonably fair to expect you'll find that sellers will ask, and buyers will pay, a reasonable premium for an original ("born") Pepsi. All three variants have their own unique looks, but the Pepsi bezel traces its look to the look of the original 6542.

As others have said here, when it comes to enjoying the watch, all three inserts are interchangeable, regardless of what came from the factory. Incidentally the codes on the papers were:

16710A = Coke
16710B = Pepsi
16710N = Black ("Noir")

A couple other points: the first generation GMT-Master II, the 16760 "fat lady" only came in the black/red Coke bezel. Approximate date of production 1983-1988.

The final generation GMT-Master, the 16700, only came in blue/red Pepsi bezel.

The second (and final) generation GMT-Master II, the 16710 was the one that came in all three variants of bezel, and overall, had the richest variation of parts throughout its production lifecycle. In addition the featuring Coke, Pepsi, and black bezels, this reference featured tritium, Luminova (SWISS -only dials), and Super-Luminova ("Swiss Made") dials. It also featured two distinct movements: the 3185 movement for most of the production, and a small batch of 3186 movements that went into the final production models. The cases featured lug holes (up through the K-serial) and no lug holes; while bracelets featured both stamped and solid endlinks.

Any way you go, the 16710 is a watch you can't collect too many of! ;)

There is very little correct in your post - -especially regarding bezel insert coding. Please read my post for a tutorial on the inserts and when the USA papers were coded with insert colors.

Where you came up with this info is beyond me. As an example, to say that the GMT 16700 only came with a red/blue insert is a prime example of misinformation in your post. If you ever look inside the 1990s GMT owner's manual, you will clearly see a 16700 there wearing a black insert.

[meyers]

Originally Posted by springer

There was no bezel insert coding on the USA warranty papers prior to 1998/99 so how would you know? All GMTs from the 16750, 16760 and early 16710/16700s had the A coding (or A30) within the USA style number found on the warranty paper. Also, many other sport models contained the same A30 coding in the style number.

My 16710 warranty paper (1999) shows A30, so not necessarily a "born" Coke then? Had always understood the letter designations as g-boac's post outlined. Learned something new

[springer]

Originally Posted by meyers

My 16710 warranty paper (1999) shows A30, so not necessarily a "born" Coke then? Had always understood the letter designations as g-boac's post outlined. Learned something new

The first use of the letter codes was around 1998/99. Yours is probably correct - that being a "coke" insert.

[drmizzou]

Originally Posted by g-boac

If you are buying a loose watch, then you can't tell. If buying a GMT-Master II originally sold in USA as a full set, it is fair to consider this: the warranty papers indicate the original configuration of the watch from the factory. It ultimately is up to the market to determine whether this has value and how much; but generally speaking, you can expect a given attribute to have some valuation.

Condition being equal, I think it's reasonably fair to expect you'll find that sellers will ask, and buyers will pay, a reasonable premium for an original ("born") Pepsi. All three variants have their own unique looks, but the Pepsi bezel traces its look to the look of the original 6542.

As others have said here, when it comes to enjoying the watch, all three inserts are interchangeable, regardless of what came from the factory. Incidentally the codes on the papers were:

16710A = Coke
16710B = Pepsi
16710N = Black ("Noir")

A couple other points: the first generation GMT-Master II, the 16760 "fat lady" only came in the black/red Coke bezel. Approximate date of production 1983-1988.

The final generation GMT-Master, the 16700, only came in blue/red Pepsi bezel.

The second (and final) generation GMT-Master II, the 16710 was the one that came in all three variants of bezel, and overall, had the richest variation of parts throughout its production lifecycle. In addition the featuring Coke, Pepsi, and black bezels, this reference featured tritium, Luminova (SWISS -only dials), and Super-Luminova ("Swiss Made") dials. It also featured two distinct movements: the 3185 movement for most of the production, and a small batch of 3186 movements that went into the final production models. The cases featured lug holes (up through the K-serial) and no lug holes; while bracelets featured both stamped and solid endlinks.

Any way you go, the 16710 is a watch you can't collect too many of! ;)

Excellent summary!

[g-boac]

Originally Posted by springer

There is very little correct in your post - -especially regarding bezel insert coding. Please read my post for a tutorial on the inserts and when the USA papers were coded with insert colors.

Where you came up with this info is beyond me. As an example, to say that the GMT 16700 only came with a red/blue insert is a prime example of misinformation in your post. If you ever look inside the 1990s GMT owner's manual, you will clearly see a 16700 there wearing a black insert.

The information above was posted in good faith and based on best recollection of a number of posts primarily here on TRF over the years. As an example, here is a link to discussion on letter codes on USA warranty papers on TRF consistent with what I wrote above:

https://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=384096

I recalled reading that the 16700 was only available with a Pepsi bezel, but between your post and further research, I stand corrected and apologize for my mistake: it appears the 16700 was indeed available with both Pepsi and black bezels. In fact, the part number for the black bezel used on the 16710 references the 16700: 315-16700-1. As does the part number for the Pepsi bezel used on the 16710: 315-16700-6:

http://www.gmtmasterhistory.com/gmt-...ref_16710.html

To moderators if possible, I respectfully request and welcome either your edits to delete the inaccurate information or delete my post entirely, or the chance to edit my post to correct it. Thanks to everyone for their replies - one great thing about this forum among many is the opportunity to share knowledge, converge on the correct answer, and I always appreciate the chance to learn.

[DoctorA]

Wow I now really want a 16710 any insert in good condition

[jb335]

I love when Springer spits knowledge.

I hope one day someone turns his posts into an audiobook.


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[Chewbacca]

depends on the final price.

[DoctorA]

Originally Posted by jb335

I love when Springer spits knowledge.

I hope one day someone turns his posts into an audiobook.


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I will start a “list” and take deposits for the audio book

[Boaters]

J/P is the best this forum is very lucky to have him!

[Swaye]

Thread resurrection time. Lots of great info in here about USA coding and determinations around the original shipped state of a GMT. However, I recently purchased a nice A serial (1999) 16710 originally purchased in the Netherlands. There are no identifying numbers on the warranty besides serial number, and the green hang tag simply has "16710" on it.

Should I assume that while the USA started detailing which insert a watch shipped with in 1998/99, other parts of the world had not, and so there is no way to determine precisely which insert your 16710 was "born" with?

[Swaye]

Originally Posted by Boaters

J/P is the best this forum is very lucky to have him!

Agree. He has helped me immensely. I almost just asked my above question of him directly, but I am trying to give him a break.

[padi56]

Originally Posted by DoctorA

Hello fellow TRF folks

I want to get a Pepsi. Does it matter value wise if I get a 16710 black insert and put a Pepsi insert on it vs getting a Pepsi born 16710?

Thanks in advance!

No in the real world the 16710 was made to have interchangeable inserts,and in many countries no indication of colour insert was on the paperwork till the last few years of production. Then mainly USA as Rolex USA is a separate company from Rolex SA.

[theflywrist]

Nah! Its impossible to say that it doesn't matter to anybody, but I'd say the vast majority would not care.
It's all about condition of the particular example really. If it is an early 16710, its impossible to tell anyway, not to mention even later ones without papers will never be able to tell for sure how they were "born".
Don't worry about these things, enjoy your hunt. Pay a premium for better quality, not for the one that was originally sold as a Pepsi! Good luck

[mmaggi]

Unless you're a collector, no, it doesn't matter. Buy what you like, wear what you like. YOLO.