Blue Snowflake advice needed - thanks!

[Lonestar19]

Howdy yall

this is my very first question on this forum, which i introduced myself on a couple of days ago. I'm an Acacia virgin, so please be gentle to me

I basically have two watches on my hit list right now that I'm becoming obsessed with. One of them is a blue snowflake. I will take the one I can afford, be it with date, or without - the latter is less likely it seems. It has to be genuine, though.

I would like to get your opinion on the following 9411/0. I am puzzled by the "flashy" blue bezel. I have greyed out the watermark, although those of you who are on the market for one have certainly seen it already, so who do I think I'm fooling really, but anyway: does this look legit to you?

I have asked more pics in natural light to the seller... but I would love to have your opinion. That blue is unusual, albeit totally lovely.

Thank you for your help,

Paul

[Lonestar19]

right, I need my post count to be 10+ to show a pic (which is a link)...

Let's try a direct upload if this works :)

Paul

[abmukete]

Are you an A&M man/woman lol?

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

[Lonestar19]

Originally Posted by abmukete

Are you an A&M man/woman lol?

at heart only - spent a couple of great years in Austin quite a while ago, as a pro, though.... And it's stuck ;)

[John in MA]

A couple of possibilities on the insert:

Insert could be an older service insert.
Attempt at artificially aging

[HERITAGE82]

Looks artificially aged

[linesiders]

Nice dial and hands - case is probably OK polish wise (as in some but not much) but hard to tell prom the one photo. Don't like the bezel, which further complicates the insert possibly being aftermarket

Originally Posted by John in MA

A couple of possibilities on the insert:

Insert could be an older service insert.
Attempt at artificially aging

^^^^ This

What's up John??

[Lonestar19]

Thanks Gentlemen for your help.

The seller sent further pictures at my request - I would welcome your further advice, if this sheds some further light on this timepiece's inegrity.

Thank you in advance for sharing your insight and helping me build my knowledge :)

Paul

[Lonestar19]

And two more:

Thank you.

Paul

[Lonestar19]

Friendly bump for some expert insight to 100% convince me I shouldn't buy this watch :D

Do the new pics add further info?

Thank you,
Paul

[linesiders]

I don't like the insert at all. I think it is at worst chem faded aftermarket. At best it is a chem faded service insert.

Rest looks authentic from photos. So depends on the price.

[chows99]

Paul, mind sharing the price offered to you? We may be able to advise if this is a valued buy.

The dial and hands are in great even patina condition. Case looks to be polished as the bevels are gone.

Insert wise, u can get a genuine service insert from ray wu. Looks great too.

[Lonestar19]

Thanks Gentlemen for trying to help, this is much appreciated :)

The seller is asking for $10K with a NOS 93150 (not original for the watch).

I am certainly skeptical about the insert - and why I asked here too! The chamfers are somewhat diminished, but then again, other than pricey safe queens, there's no chance to find a 100% pristine case I guess :(

Thanks for pointing me to Ray Wu - I have located him. The issue with a service insert will be the bright white pip, I'm afraid... I find the patina on those dials / hands lovely for now.

Thanks in advance for your kind, further perspective. The Rolex / Tudor world is pretty tough to newbies :(

Thank you,
Paul

[gman5515]

Originally Posted by Lonestar19

Thanks Gentlemen for trying to help, this is much appreciated :)

The seller is asking for $10K with a NOS 93150 (not original for the watch).

I am certainly skeptical about the insert - and why I asked here too! The chamfers are somewhat diminished, but then again, other than pricey safe queens, there's no chance to find a 100% pristine case I guess :(

Thanks for pointing me to Ray Wu - I have located him. The issue with a service insert will be the bright white pip, I'm afraid... I find the patina on those dials / hands lovely for now.

Thanks in advance for your kind, further perspective. The Rolex / Tudor world is pretty tough to newbies :(

Thank you,
Paul

Hands and dial looks ok to me, but my fear about the insert is an aftermarket, though i"m not 100% sure, and gladly stand corrected. Back of the insert looks damaged due attempt of artificially aging it.

I do agree the Tudor vintage world is very tough for newbies, but for rolex vintages, not so bad, as there's much more info and details available on rolex vintages than Tudors.

Good luck!

[alwayshere]

Originally Posted by linesiders

I don't like the insert at all. I think it is at worst chem faded aftermarket. At best it is a chem faded service insert.

Rest looks authentic from photos. So depends on the price.

Agreed with LS, I also havent seen a "purplish" colour to the bezel even when faded, its usually still a blue / light shade of blue. Maybe its the photography / flash thats causing that but i'm sceptical

[Ignace Worang]

Imho watch looks good overall....bezel might be from 79090. I have 79090 with similar hue....though tad darker. 10k is probably too much for it.

[Lonestar19]

Thank you all for the help. This is much appreciated. As much as I like the dial and hands, I am a bit skittish about that bezel, as you confirmed I should be. In any case the $10K+ price I think is not justified :(

@Ignace Worang - you could be right indeed with the 79090 hint... it looks like the blue from that reference was a bit lighter - see here for instance:

https://www.hqmilton.com/timepieces/...blue-dial-5037



Thank you everyone for your precious help.

Paul

[CPRWATCH]

I agree with comment regarding that the bezel insert may be from a 79090 . Here is mine below as another reference & think it could be the lighting on the bezel making it look a bit off .

[Lonestar19]

Thank you @CPRWatch . Other than the color, are there other tell-tale signs about the insert, such as the font, some thickness on the designs, and so on? I tried looking for this in detail but they are similar to my untrained eye.

Also, may I ask the same question about the bezel? Are snowflake bezels and later/other sub bezels interchangeable?

thank you,
Paul

[zapokee]

Originally Posted by Lonestar19

Are snowflake bezels and later/other sub bezels interchangeable?
Paul

In theory yes for some cases, but in practice your milage may vary. I tried swapping the bezel insert mounting between two compatible Subs from 1971. On paper they're absolutely interchangeable, but in fact they had slightly different tolerances. They did fit, but one was so tight that it didn't turn at all, and the other was so loose that it kept falling off. Had to swap them back

[Lonestar19]

Thank you @zapokee for contributing to my education, this is much appreciated. You just gained a free IG follow btw :)

Paul

[zapokee]

Originally Posted by Lonestar19

You just gained a free IG follow btw :)

Thanks! Glad to help. Happily they've all been free...

[Ignace Worang]

Here are mine:






I've tried to interchange the insert and it seems to work....and yes, one seem tighter than another but I switched back as the the respective bezel fits the original dials better.

[Lonestar19]

Ooooooh

Thanks for the pics and the info :)

[Lonestar19]

Hello Gentlemen,

I've moved away from that snowflake and just wired the money for another one, which I'm hoping to receive next week.

thank you again for your kind help and insight. I'm looking forward to being "really" part of the community very shortly and feeling like a schoolboy the week before christmas

Thank you,
Paul

[BigBlue1]

Great to hear Paul.
Can’t wait to see what you decided on.
Please share when you do.
It’s killing us just as much as it’s killing you.

[Lonestar19]

Originally Posted by BigBlue1

Great to hear Paul.
Can’t wait to see what you decided on.
Please share when you do.

Thank you - I certainly will

Originally Posted by BigBlue1

It’s killing us just as much as it’s killing you.

you might be overdoing it slightly, but I appreciate the kind worlds

[John in MA]

Good to know. That insert looked original but chemically faded as stated.

Jesus these things are going for 10k now?!?! Oh makes me cringe to think of all the ones I've sold in the last 5-7 years......

[linesiders]

Originally Posted by John in MA

Good to know. That insert looked original but chemically faded as stated.

Jesus these things are going for 10k now?!?! Oh makes me cringe to think of all the ones I've sold in the last 5-7 years......

YO - A full set nice blue flake B/P can fetch high teens ; )

[J!m]

I have an all original black dial 1978 and am restoring a 1976 blue dial. I guess you moved on but the dial and hands are (in my opinion) early service replacements. I say that because the original blue dials all suffered from “rot” which caused Rolex to change paint three times as I recall to get it to “stick”.

The first picture I thought it was an original. They look nearly black, and in fact I got my (rotted) dial for “reasonable” money as the seller was sure it was a (more common) black dial. But, Black dials don’t rot. Reports of rotted black dials were blue dials. It is a dark navy blue.

In your later pictures (under flash) it is clear the dial color is lighter. But the ink font style is identical to the first gen (rotten) dials so it (again,in my opinion) is probably a second gen dial. Same ink, close color. MAY rot in the future. Third gen dials are a lighter blue color. Arguably nicer, and the inspiration for the blue Pelagos I suspect. I see a lot of those dials here.

Insert looks to be thin font service (at best). Not the right one original to the watch. (I’m guessing this is a 1975 or so) You can get nicer looking aftermarket ones.

My inset is faded to “royal blue” or a somewhat purple hue. Similar to what you see with gold 1680’s. Similar time frame and probably made by the same maker. Later ones (or from another maker) seemed to fade more “nicely” and just become light blue- sort of like fading jeans. I prefer that look but I didn’t get that insert...

I’d need a lot more photos of a case to judge condition. I’ve seen solid cases that look really “over polished” just because they were not very sharp, from dings and wear. And I’ve seen well presented cases that were re-shaped and were actually thin. Best to do in hand but I’m getting better with pictures.

Looking forward to see what you decided on!