London Patek

[Hendrikus]

Spent some time in the official Patek boutique in London today.

As expected, they don’t have one single Nautilus or Aquanaut. A potential customer case in, clearly a tourist, and irately showed a photo of a watch on her phone to the salesman. Think it was a 5167A. The response was waiting list, with a deposit, exceeds two years. The potential customer then proclaimed Money was not an issue and this was a gift. Still, no watch she was told. She got crosser and crosser.

It was all rather bizarre to watch. They tried to show her some lovely Calatrava and Gondolo watches but of course she wasn’t interested.

Now, as an owner of the 5167A I thought she was so desperately after, should I have taken her contact details .....

[tyler1980]

IMO the salon is the worst place for stock of populars. Everyone goes there first. I went there once just to ask out of curiosity and got "5 years" my AD produced it in 7 days. And they got it from the distributor (not from their safe), the same place the salon gets watches from.

I still go there to look at the very high end stuff as they have lots of that, but i still probably wouldn't buy there.

Ive seen my share of irate customers at London AD's, but the never the salon as its so intimidating and the double locked entry doors, i would think people would be on their best behavior.

[thomaspp]

Can’t see this being good for the brand or the retail side of the business


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[thomaspp]

If Patek wants to protect nautilus line, Why wouldn’t they just make a lot 5167s to satisfy that “entry level” customers and hook people on the brand?


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[tyler1980]

Originally Posted by thomaspp

If Patek wants to protect nautilus line, Why wouldn’t they just make a lot 5167s to satisfy that “entry level” customers and hook people on the brand?


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i think they are protecting their dress line by limiting all sports watches. Look at AP they have become RO and ROO. It didn't always use to be that way. To their credit they put all the high end complications into those lines. I have never seen a JA incoming ever (nor have i ever seen one in real life and i go to AD's all the time) and one Millenary incoming.

People want sports watches and that is undeniable, but im not sure Patek wants them to want sports watches.

[thomaspp]

Originally Posted by tyler1980

i think they are protecting their dress line by limiting all sports watches. Look at AP they have become RO and ROO. It didn't always use to be that way. To their credit they put all the high end complications into those lines. I have never seen a JA incoming ever (nor have i ever seen one in real life and i go to AD's all the time) and one Millenary incoming.

People want sports watches and that is undeniable, but im not sure Patek wants them to want sports watches.

Understood. I just don’t understand how you expect to get new customers into the brand or hobby if there is nothing to sell them? Rolex same story now too... I think there has to be some sporty entry level type watch that is actually available for purchase or else people will get bored and walk away. Also must be really tough for retail partners and that’s not good either


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[tyler1980]

Originally Posted by thomaspp

Understood. I just don’t understand how you expect to get new customers into the brand or hobby if there is nothing to sell them? Rolex same story now too... I think there has to be some sporty entry level type watch that is actually available for purchase or else people will get bored and walk away. Also must be really tough for retail partners and that’s not good either


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even non entry level. A 5164 costs more than most calatravas in gold so i would not consider that entry level at all and you cant readily get one and its not a Nautilus. I think they are a bit too conservative here as the market is demanding sports watches. Im glad they are protecting their other lines but they seem to be a bit too far to one side so i would like to see more balance. Not a full blown sports watch transformation though.

The other option is to make bigger complication pieces. 5170 in 41/42mm and id consider it (like the 5070). World timers need to be bigger than 38.5. That might push sports watch buyers into something else.

[AK797]

If money was really no object for her might have been interesting to show her yours and see what she'd bid.

[Sam Philip]

Originally Posted by tyler1980

IMO the salon is the worst place for stock of populars. Everyone goes there first. I went there once just to ask out of curiosity and got "5 years" my AD produced it in 7 days. And they got it from the distributor (not from their safe), the same place the salon gets watches from.

I still go there to look at the very high end stuff as they have lots of that, but i still probably wouldn't buy there.

Ive seen my share of irate customers at London AD's, but the never the salon as its so intimidating and the double locked entry doors, i would think people would be on their best behavior.

Rhone allocates and distributes watches to the UK ADs but not to the Salon. Salon is controlled directly from Geneva.

[tyler1980]

Originally Posted by Sam Philip

Rhone allocates and distributes watches to the UK ADs but not to the Salon. Salon is controlled directly from Geneva.

who imports them then as usually its an import company?

In any case, the distributor had better inventory than Patek directly

[SW1]

Originally Posted by Sam Philip

Rhone allocates and distributes watches to the UK ADs but not to the Salon. Salon is controlled directly from Geneva.

Rhone lists the Salon as a 100% subsiduary in its annual financual statements.

Rhone is 100% owned by Geneva.

[jon_jon]

It is an interesting relationship between the London Salon, Rhone and Geneva. Since the London Salon is directly owned by Patek Philippe, all the staff working there are Patek employees. I am not sure if they directly report to Rhone and/or are limited by Rhone's allocation process.

All 3 Salons have some big whale collectors and if one of them want a special piece, the London Salon do not have to go through Rhone AFAIK. They can ask Geneva directly. We are not talking about 5711/1A's and 5167A's here, but LE pieces, application pieces and custom watches. I would expect difficult to obtain items from the recent Basel releases are also in this category.

As for people being upset they can't get a watch they want, it is just par for the course in the luxury goods market. Just because you have the money, it doesn't mean you can walk into a Hermes boutique and walk out with 5 Birkins. The same is true for Patek. Now if you own 100+ Birkin bags and/or 100+ Patek watches, then of course the Hermes Boutique manager or the Patek Salon director will take you straight to a private room and show you their special items.

[tom2517]

Originally Posted by jon_jon

It is an interesting relationship between the London Salon, Rhone and Geneva. Since the London Salon is directly owned by Patek Philippe, all the staff working there are Patek employees. I am not sure if they directly report to Rhone and/or are limited by Rhone's allocation process.

All 3 Salons have some big whale collectors and if one of them want a special piece, the London Salon do not have to go through Rhone AFAIK. They can ask Geneva directly. We are not talking about 5711/1A's and 5167A's here, but LE pieces, application pieces and custom watches. I would expect difficult to obtain items from the recent Basel releases are also in this category.

As for people being upset they can't get a watch they want, it is just par for the course in the luxury goods market. Just because you have the money, it doesn't mean you can walk into a Hermes boutique and walk out with 5 Birkins. The same is true for Patek. Now if you own 100+ Birkin bags and/or 100+ Patek watches, then of course the Hermes Boutique manager or the Patek Salon director will take you straight to a private room and show you their special items.

Yeah I was just going to say there are exceptions. If money really isn’t an issue you can actually walk out of Hermes with 5 Birkins. It’s very simple, buy 5 different expensive Hermes watch and they will pair each one with a Birkin, this is coming from personal experience. She can get that Aquanaut, just how much she is willing to spend to get there, it’s easy to say money is not an issue, but is it really?

[jon_jon]

Originally Posted by tom2517

Yeah I was just going to say there are exceptions. If money really isn’t an issue you can actually walk out of Hermes with 5 Birkins. It’s very simple, buy 5 different expensive Hermes watch and they will pair each one with a Birkin, this is coming from personal experience. She can get that Aquanaut, just how much she is willing to spend to get there, it’s easy to say money is not an issue, but is it really?

That is true. Is she tells the salesperson she will buy a 5270, 5327, 5159 and a ladies perpetual calendar, then the salesperson may say she can make an exception and put her on the wait list.

However the London Salon (as well as the 2 other Salons) is different from ADs in other parts of the world. Their client list is quite extensive who have already spent not only millions, but probably tens of millions there. Just because someone is willing to spend ‎£300K on a few watches, they are not necessarily going to bring out a 5167A from the back room. I know you have mentioned a number of times this happens in Taiwan and I believe it, because money talks more in certain parts of the world.

However I am skeptical that this would happen in the one of the 3 Patek Salons for a new customer. If someone who have purchased 100 Pateks from the Salon calls the Salon director and says he would like a 5740, I am sure he will say "no problem". But if someone off the street says, I will purchase ‎£300K worth of watches if you can get me a 5740, probably not going to happen at the Salon. Now if he says he is going to spend ‎£3mil or ‎£30mil, maybe they will make an exception However it may trigger an alert whether this is legit money and the customer may be asked to submit an "application"

[thomaspp]

Originally Posted by jon_jon

That is true. Is she tells the salesperson she will buy a 5270, 5327, 5159 and a ladies perpetual calendar, then the salesperson may say she can make an exception and put her on the wait list.



However the London Salon (as well as the 2 other Salons) is different from ADs in other parts of the world. Their client list is quite extensive who have already spent not only millions, but probably tens of millions there. Just because someone is willing to spend ‎£300K on a few watches, they are not necessarily going to bring out a 5167A from the back room. I know you have mentioned a number of times this happens in Taiwan and I believe it, because money talks more in certain parts of the world.



However I am skeptical that this would happen in the one of the 3 Patek Salons for a new customer. If someone who have purchased 100 Pateks from the Salon calls the Salon director and says he would like a 5740, I am sure he will say "no problem". But if someone off the street says, I will purchase ‎£300K worth of watches if you can get me a 5740, probably not going to happen at the Salon. Now if he says he is going to spend ‎£3mil or ‎£30mil, maybe they will make an exception However it may trigger an alert whether this is legit money and the customer may be asked to submit an "application"

Originally Posted by tom2517

Yeah I was just going to say there are exceptions. If money really isn’t an issue you can actually walk out of Hermes with 5 Birkins. It’s very simple, buy 5 different expensive Hermes watch and they will pair each one with a Birkin, this is coming from personal experience. She can get that Aquanaut, just how much she is willing to spend to get there, it’s easy to say money is not an issue, but is it really?

Problem with drawing a parallel with something like Hermes is you can buy a scarf, a tie, a belt, etc etc etc to wet your appetite on the brand while you wait for the birkin bag or whatever.... I really do think many people start in the hobby by buying a more less affordable (20-50k) steel sports watch. So by not having anything to sell those people you may alienate future customers, leave less money and make life hard for the retail partners/staff and frustrate long time collectors in the process. I guess it seems more logical to me to limit nautilus etc but to make something that is actually available for purchase...


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[SW1]

Originally Posted by thomaspp

Problem with drawing a parallel with something like Hermes is you can buy a scarf, a tie, a belt, etc etc etc to wet your appetite on the brand while you wait for the birkin bag or whatever.... I really do think many people start in the hobby by buying a more less affordable (20-50k) steel sports watch. So by not having anything to sell those people you may alienate future customers, leave less money and make life hard for the retail partners/staff and frustrate long time collectors in the process. I guess it seems more logical to me to limit nautilus etc but to make something that is actually available for purchase...


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My first PP was actually a 5146G and then a 5130G...i am not sure thst people will necessarily enter a brand at the bottom of the price range. If i wanted a Merc SL600 doubt i would buy an A series first..but if i just wanted a Merc for the sake of Merc (on limited budget) guess you would....

If the 5167 wasnt so scarce would it be so desirable? Nope....maybe it is scarce as at that price point there is more demand....looking at the financials for the UK last year they were significantly higher than the year before....

GP margin moved from 19 to 22% and NPAT doubled to £12 million and everyone talks of a slowdown!!!!

[tom2517]

Originally Posted by jon_jon

That is true. Is she tells the salesperson she will buy a 5270, 5327, 5159 and a ladies perpetual calendar, then the salesperson may say she can make an exception and put her on the wait list.

However the London Salon (as well as the 2 other Salons) is different from ADs in other parts of the world. Their client list is quite extensive who have already spent not only millions, but probably tens of millions there. Just because someone is willing to spend ‎£300K on a few watches, they are not necessarily going to bring out a 5167A from the back room. I know you have mentioned a number of times this happens in Taiwan and I believe it, because money talks more in certain parts of the world.

However I am skeptical that this would happen in the one of the 3 Patek Salons for a new customer. If someone who have purchased 100 Pateks from the Salon calls the Salon director and says he would like a 5740, I am sure he will say "no problem". But if someone off the street says, I will purchase ‎£300K worth of watches if you can get me a 5740, probably not going to happen at the Salon. Now if he says he is going to spend ‎£3mil or ‎£30mil, maybe they will make an exception However it may trigger an alert whether this is legit money and the customer may be asked to submit an "application"

Yeah probably true with the salons, might have to spend millions.

[SW1]

Tne primary focus of tbe salon is not sales but brand awareness. PP does not wish to compete with its AD's. Its a place where you can see the models, try them on and hopefully go to your AD for a purchase order. There are some collectirs who.like having a purchase from the salon (like having tiffany on the dial) and thus are prepared to waitlist. Generally tbe waitlist at London is 5 years on everything...i bought a 5130G there once and must say tbey cimplete the sales voucher beautifully in copperplate ...oh u get afree servuce, strap and wooden sided travel case free

[watchtabs]

People who want a sports watch will just go buy what they want from another brand, or pay the premium. I refuse to be coerced into buying a dress watch I'll never wear.

I imagine others will look at other options and forget about PP. I think PP is making a mistake, by turning everyone away to AP who is happy to sell them their offshores, and 15400's.

[soundserious]

I say this over and over again: everybody pays market price.

[goog53]

I think Patek is making a small shift towards sporty and more casual watches. This past year at Basel the 5740G, 5968A, and 5524R can be put in that category. It will take a few years to overhaul the catalog if they choose to go this route.

[AK797]

Originally Posted by tom2517

Yeah I was just going to say there are exceptions. If money really isn’t an issue you can actually walk out of Hermes with 5 Birkins. It’s very simple, buy 5 different expensive Hermes watch and they will pair each one with a Birkin, this is coming from personal experience. She can get that Aquanaut, just how much she is willing to spend to get there, it’s easy to say money is not an issue, but is it really?

And if you are a really VVIP or a Royal, they will shut down the store or open it at night for your sole viewing pleasure, for stores all along Bond St.

[tom2517]

Originally Posted by AK797

And if you are a really VVIP or a Royal, they will shut down the store or open it at night for your sole viewing pleasure, for stores all along Bond St.

Oh I believe you.

[Russell996]

Originally Posted by AK797

And if you are a really VVIP or a Royal, they will shut down the store or open it at night for your sole viewing pleasure, for stores all along Bond St.

I thought this is how everyone shops.

[SL BRABUS]

If money not an issue for her then buy it form the gray, brand new @ premium price.... And call it a day......

[SL BRABUS]

Originally Posted by watchtabs

I imagine others will look at other options and forget about PP. I think PP is making a mistake, by turning everyone away to AP who is happy to sell them their offshores, and 15400's.

Maybe small percentage......

Patek Philippe don't care because thanks to the social media, people love to buy something that is sought after and talk about sought after pieces like Aquanaut or Nautilus.....

Win win situation.... Free advertising for the brand......

I bet a lot of people willing to wait or pay the premium because Patek Philippe is the KING of brand identity for the high end luxury watches.....

[Rolexavidfan]

Originally Posted by thomaspp

Problem with drawing a parallel with something like Hermes is you can buy a scarf, a tie, a belt, etc etc etc to wet your appetite on the brand while you wait for the birkin bag or whatever.... I really do think many people start in the hobby by buying a more less affordable (20-50k) steel sports watch. So by not having anything to sell those people you may alienate future customers, leave less money and make life hard for the retail partners/staff and frustrate long time collectors in the process. I guess it seems more logical to me to limit nautilus etc but to make something that is actually available for purchase...


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True! I tried that route to Patek in the early days and came out satisfied. It’s just so unfortunate that it is a different experience nowadays to Patek newbies.

However, for Hermes it’s a different story though. Bought lots of Hermes stuff from scarf to belt to ties to perfume, still the elusive Birkin bag is still to be found. But that’s ok. There are substitutes that I went for and cane out happier for my wallet and more bag varieties for my wife.


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[Burlington]

If I was the sales associate I think my response would have been something along the lines of “nor is it for PP”

[AK797]

Originally Posted by Rolexavidfan

True! I tried that route to Patek in the early days and came out satisfied. It’s just so unfortunate that it is a different experience nowadays to Patek newbies.

However, for Hermes it’s a different story though. Bought lots of Hermes stuff from scarf to belt to ties to perfume, still the elusive Birkin bag is still to be found. But that’s ok. There are substitutes that I went for and cane out happier for my wallet and more bag varieties for my wife.


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I didn't think I was a Hermes guy but I have had their belt, perfume and ties as well. Funny how things creep up on you... now where's their forum?

[Skanse]

I went there Friday to look what they had on display. Walked in the store and saw a client who was trying on the 5968A, it looked stunning.


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