Too many turns of the crown

[Ramir77]

Hello all,

I've been a member for almost two years and this is only my second post. Pretty lame, huh? I'm hoping some forum members can address my concern. It's been bothering me for a while. So here it is; My two tone sub bluesy needs 70 to 85 turns of the crown before the second hand starts to run, while my other sub no-date only needs about 20 turns of the crown for the second hand to run. Should I be concerned about this? Is this normal that my bluesy needs so many turns of the crown just to get it going? It's a new model bought only 6 months ago. Your thoughts on this would be greatly appreciated, thanks.

[sleddog]

Nothing wrong with your watch, and quite normal. Some will start ticking after 15 or less turns on the crown, others will not.
After 20 turns or so, give your watch a gentle shake, and im sure it will start to run. 50 turns will suffice for a full wind, but with all modern Rolex pieces, you can not over wind due to a clutch mechanism....

Enjoy your watch, and TRF!

[squrrlz]

When did Rolex start adding this clutch mechanism to their watches to prevent over winding?

[Frank80]

I'd have to assume the clutch came in with the automatic models.

[dmhines]

I think the norm is 40 turns for a FULL wind ... you need 75 to 80 to start moving? or is that 75 or 80 half winds ? My Milgauss starts moving at around 5 turns .. my 1991 GMT needs about 20 turns to start moving ...

[Tools]

Originally Posted by Ramir77

. . . My two tone sub bluesy needs 70 to 85 turns of the crown before the second hand starts to run, while my other sub no-date only needs about 20 turns of the crown for the second hand to run. Should I be concerned about this? . . .

You don't need to keep winding your watch until it "starts". Give it about 20 turns, then tap the side a couple of times with your finger, it should start right up.

There are a lot of mechanical parts pushing against one another, and gears that need to lash-up, as well as the lever pallet and hairspring to push-start.

Sometimes this needs a nudge to overcome friction and torque lock.

If you are winding 70 or 80 times, you are just spinning the mainspring inside it's barrel and inducing unnecessary wear and tear on that component.

[77T]

Originally Posted by squrrlz

When did Rolex start adding this clutch mechanism to their watches to prevent over winding?

According to their own history page at Rolex.com, that’d be 1931. That’s when the earlier Oyster watch became an Oyster Perpetual:

https://m.rolex.com/rolex-history/1926-1945.html

But the slipping mainspring that underlies the whole thing was an earlier invention. I’m citing an old TRF thread to add something Alcan provided:

https://www.rolexforums.com/archive/.../t-164769.html

On June 16, 1863, Adrien Philippe (of Patek Philippe) is credited with Patent No.58941, for the "slipping mainspring". This particular invention allowed the simultaneous winding of two or more mainspring barrels, certainly a different invention with a different purpose. However, the technology of his invention is said to be the foundation for the development of self-winding wristwatches.

The Slipping Spring

This "slipping" spring allows the mainspring to slide or slip a few degrees relative to the inside of the barrel while still staying fully wound. The end of the slipping spring moves from one groove to another on the inside the barrel, stopping each time, and thus keeping the spring under constant tension.

This attachment of spring steel is sometimes referred to as a bridle. This bridle slips along the barrel wall before excess pressure is passed to the going train. The bridle must also grip the barrel wall sufficiently to not slip down either too rapidly, or too slowly, a defect known as “mainspring creep” which results in a shortened reserve power time.

The slipping bridle on the outer end of the mainspring is illustrated here. (1). the bridle (in the barrel), (2) maintains outward pressure on the outermost coil of the mainspring (3). At less than full wind, the bridle pressure causes the outer tip of the spring to catch in a notch in the barrel wall (4) and maintain its position. As the mainspring reaches full wind, the outer end of the spring slips out of the notch and releases tension by slipping across the smooth section of the barrel wall (5) until it catches in the next notch."



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[squrrlz]

Thanks for the informative reply 77T!


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[R.G.Bramlett, CW21]

If the watch is that reluctant to start on a full wind, i wonder if the watch might be far out of beat. if you don't have a timing machine, you might want to bring it to a competent watchmaker who could tell you how bad the beat error is.

Otherwise yes, i wouldn't recommend winding the watch 80 times...20 times and a gentle shake should certainly suffice...