About to pick this up on the weekend. Want to check if this is legit

[Mrjohnhuo]

Hey guys, long time lurker first time poster. I'm about to pick this 2018 116610 up this weekend. It's purchased through an acquittance I know. The watch is from one of his contacts and my acquittance is a watch enthusiast aswell, especially Rolex.

His has a few Rolexes and AP, hence why I trust his judgement. But not 100% confident of his contact. Hence I want to ask you guys for help to see if this is legit.

Thanks for your help.



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[Mrjohnhuo]

Forgot to add this pic.


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[ThatExplorer]

From what I can see if looks good, the bracelet looks like it has been re-brushes which could be normal for a service. Does the Serial match the serial inside the rehaut? Does it wind smooth?

Most importantly how do you feel about it?


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[GLADIATOR]

IMPOSSIBLE to authenticate those photos
BUT if anything, looks suspect!
A

[freefly]

Originally Posted by Mrjohnhuo

I'm about to pick this 2018 116610 up this weekend.

Looks OK (no red flags), but I'd want to put eyes/hands on it in person prior to handing over the cash. I certainly wouldn't purchase it sight-unseen based on those photos.

If you are going to pick it up locally, you might just consider meeting your friend at the RSC in Sydney.

[Mrjohnhuo]

Originally Posted by ThatExplorer

From what I can see if looks good, the bracelet looks like it has been re-brushes which could be normal for a service. Does the Serial match the serial inside the rehaut? Does it wind smooth?

Most importantly how do you feel about it?


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I'll definitely check the serial numbers to the case and rehaut. I think I'll take it to a swiss watch repairer to make sure it's genuine. The local RSC has very bad reviews with lots of people compalining repairs not been done properly.



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[socalwatchcollector]

No way of knowing for sure unless you open it up.. The fakes out there now days are scary good!

The other question is.. What does he want for it? Too low of a number and it's usually a red flag. AD's don't have them unless you're on the "list" and gray dealers selling for almost 10k new and close to that preowned.

[Mrjohnhuo]

Originally Posted by socalwatchcollector

No way of knowing for sure unless you open it up.. The fakes out there now days are scary good!

The other question is.. What does he want for it? Too low of a number and it's usually a red flag. AD's don't have them unless you're on the "list" and gray dealers selling for almost 10k new and close to that preowned.

Well the guy wants 9300USD equivalent to AUD for a 2018. Definitly taking this and opening it up for verification. Keep you all posted. Will confirm tomorrow.

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[Gtecko]

The sub has been copied, replicated so many times ... it is one of the most counterfeited Rolex out there and some of their replicas are very well done. As mentioned, only opening it will give you the piece of mind.
Good luck

[GLADIATOR]

Originally Posted by Gtecko

The sub has been copied, replicated so many times ... it is one of the most counterfeited Rolex out there and some of their replicas are very well done. As mentioned, only opening it will give you the piece of mind.
Good luck

Even opening it not a guarantee.
The latest fakes have genuine movements!
A

[Gtecko]

Originally Posted by GLADIATOR

Even opening it not a guarantee.
The latest fakes have genuine movements!
A

wow ... that is scary then ...

[Mrjohnhuo]

Originally Posted by GLADIATOR

Even opening it not a guarantee.

The latest fakes have genuine movements!

A

Yeah I saw some of those one somewhere. With partial genuine parts.

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[GLADIATOR]

Originally Posted by Mrjohnhuo

Yeah I saw some of those one somewhere. With partial genuine parts.

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Movement is 100% genuine and untouched
Case, dial, bezel and bracelet are fake

But those get scary close

[Mrjohnhuo]

Hi All, update, good news. Just came from a swiss watch servicing centre. They open the case and verified case, rehaut and inner mechanics and they confirmed it's genuine.

For $75, it's worth checking.

Happy with my new watch.

Cheers.



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[Jim Smyth]

Good news you did it the right way. Now enjoy your new watch.

[jfigs82]

Congrats and great bye. Small price to pay for peace of mind.


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[PRSWILL]

Originally Posted by GLADIATOR

Movement is 100% genuine and untouched
Case, dial, bezel and bracelet are fake

But those get scary close

WHERE are the counterfeiters getting genuine movements in enought volume to sell? That doesnt' make sense. I have seen some really good COPIED movements- but "genuine"? that's not possible.

[GLADIATOR]

Originally Posted by PRSWILL

WHERE are the counterfeiters getting genuine movements in enought volume to sell? That doesnt' make sense. I have seen some really good COPIED movements- but "genuine"? that's not possible.

Look. I am not argueing with you.
These movements are 100% GENUINE
And are flooding New York.
so much so that WATCH CSA issued a warning to all members.

I have seen 5 pieces.
Unless you are living in an environment of buying or accessing ROLEX's every day, you have NO idea
BUT
Please do not implies I can not determine a genuine modern Rolex movement from a fake!!!!!

[smym18]

Originally Posted by GLADIATOR

Look. I am not argueing with you.
These movements are 100% GENUINE
And are flooding New York.
so much so that WATCH CSA issued a warning to all members.

I have seen 5 pieces.
Unless you are living in an environment of buying or accessing ROLEX's every day, you have NO idea
BUT
Please do not implies I can not determine a genuine modern Rolex movement from a fake!!!!!

This is brutal. I work in a family jewelry store, not far from NYC, and have been buying pre-owned Rolex from customers for years. I've turned down plenty for being fakes. I'm almost at the point where I have to stop doing it, leaving us with an empty watch case, because the thought of accidentally paying for, or even selling, a fake is killing me.

[GLADIATOR]

Originally Posted by smym18

This is brutal. I work in a family jewelry store, not far from NYC, and have been buying pre-owned Rolex from customers for years. I've turned down plenty for being fakes. I'm almost at the point where I have to stop doing it, leaving us with an empty watch case, because the thought of accidentally paying for, or even selling, a fake is killing me.

I agree and understand
Even I am shaking now, when I authorize loans or buys for Rolex.
But I promise you that many NYC (47th st) people got duped. They all think that genuine movement = genuine watch! Not the case any more.

I am happy to help you tell the difference.
a

[dhknola]

It is crazy the fakes now have genuine movements...It's one of the reason I stick w 5 digit watches, the new ones seem like a minefield in secondary market and this AD glad handing is not for me.

[JBZ]

Originally Posted by PRSWILL

WHERE are the counterfeiters getting genuine movements in enought volume to sell? That doesnt' make sense. I have seen some really good COPIED movements- but "genuine"? that's not possible.

This also seems highly unlikely to me. I can possibly see counterfeiters taking older real movements from less desirable or perhaps damaged Rolexes and putting them into fake cases for more desirable models. But new, pristine Rolex movements being inserted into fake cases? I would think this would take an inside person at Rolex to accomplish, and I doubt it could be done in enough volume to make it worth it.

Happy to be proven wrong, though.

[GLADIATOR]

Originally Posted by JBZ

This also seems highly unlikely to me. I can possibly see counterfeiters taking older real movements from less desirable or perhaps damaged Rolexes and putting them into fake cases for more desirable models. But new, pristine Rolex movements being inserted into fake cases? I would think this would take an inside person at Rolex to accomplish, and I doubt it could be done in enough volume to make it worth it.

Happy to be proven wrong, though.

:SIGH"
Look these are latest 3135 movements with bleu hairsprings
They are genuine 100% made by ROLEX

NOW
If you don't want to understand this. Let me sell you a DEEPSEA - James Cameron
I GUARANTEE the movement is GENUINE.
But watch is FAKE!

Now please try to be taught, latest info.
Would WATCH CSA put out an emergency Press Release if I was telling you nonsense?

I have seen 5 pieces! They have seen more, they even issued serial number
::SIGH""

[JBZ]

Originally Posted by GLADIATOR

:SIGH"
Look these are latest 3135 movements with bleu hairsprings
They are genuine 100% made by ROLEX

NOW
If you don't want to understand this. Let me sell you a DEEPSEA - James Cameron
I GUARANTEE the movement is GENUINE.
But watch is FAKE!

Now please try to be taught, latest info.
Would WATCH CSA put out an emergency Press Release if I was telling you nonsense?

I have seen 5 pieces! They have seen more, they even issued serial number
::SIGH""

No need to be condescending or get exasperated or upset.

Would you provide a link to the press release? That would benefit everyone here. If not, perhaps you could explain how brand new genuine Rolex movements are finding their way into counterfeit cases en masse. That still seems very implausible to me.

[GLADIATOR]

Originally Posted by JBZ

No need to be condescending or get exasperated or upset.

Would you provide a link to the press release? That would benefit everyone here. If not, perhaps you could explain how brand new genuine Rolex movements are finding their way into counterfeit cases en masse. That still seems very implausible to me.

I get "upset" because you (and others) dont want to listen to the facts - instead of trying to find out you close your mind to the fact that counterfeiters will get better and better.
Especially while Rolex sports models demand such huge prices!

To answer your question
1) There is no link, it was an eMailed press release to CSA members (which our company is one)
2) I can not explain how the counterfeiters are getting hold of these movements.
I can speculate, but thats just my theories.
I can confirm that the movements are running to COSC and Rolex improved spec of +/- 2 seconds/day!

I note you dont want to but a James Cameron with genuine movement? Why is that?
"IMPLAUSABLE" or not - its a fact

A

[JBZ]

Originally Posted by GLADIATOR

I get "upset" because you (and others) dont want to listen to the facts - instead of trying to find out you close your mind to the fact that counterfeiters will get better and better.
Especially while Rolex sports models demand such huge prices!

To answer your question
1) There is no link, it was an eMailed press release to CSA members (which our company is one)
2) I can not explain how the counterfeiters are getting hold of these movements.
I can speculate, but thats just my theories.
I can confirm that the movements are running to COSC and Rolex improved spec of +/- 2 seconds/day!

I note you dont want to but a James Cameron with genuine movement? Why is that?

A

I don't want to buy a James Cameron at all, because I can't afford it.

Maybe you could provide a copy of the email. If it's a press release, then it shouldn't be confidential. That would certainly help me "find out."

I'm not closing my mind to anything, but when someone asserts something as fact, they usually back it up with evidence. That should be pretty easy for you to do, given your expertise. Yet, all you've provided are assertions. Perhaps they are well founded assertions, but they are still only that.

At the very least, has anyone informed Rolex about this situation? I would think they'd be alarmed to know that genuine movements are somehow being stolen from their factory to be used in fake watches. That would be an all hands on deck, red alert situation from their perspective.

[GLADIATOR]

Originally Posted by JBZ

I don't want to buy a James Cameron at all, because I can't afford it.

Maybe you could provide a copy of the email. If it's a press release, then it shouldn't be confidential. That would certainly help me "find out."

I'm not closing my mind to anything, but when someone asserts something as fact, they usually back it up with evidence. That should be pretty easy for you to do, given your expertise. Yet, all you've provided are assertions. Perhaps they are well founded assertions, but they are still only that.

At the very least, has anyone informed Rolex about this situation? I would think they'd be alarmed to know that genuine movements are somehow being stolen from their factory to be used in fake watches. That would be an all hands on deck, red alert situation from their perspective.

These forums are not to discuss fakes.

If you tell me how to let ROLEX know - I am happy to do it.

[JBZ]

Originally Posted by GLADIATOR

These forums are not to discuss fakes.

If you tell me how to let ROLEX know - I am happy to do it.

I think I have my answer, thanks.

[freefly]

Originally Posted by GLADIATOR

These movements are 100% GENUINE
And are flooding New York.
so much so that WATCH CSA issued a warning to all members.

I have seen 5 pieces.

Which models were they?
Surely you have photo-documented those 5 pieces, right? Let's seem them!
If they are truly "flooding" the market, I'm sure the sources have been identified by now (like all other suppliers of "super fakes" out there), right? So who are they? Where are they coming from? PM me if you don't want to discuss here.


I think the reason that your claim is a bit hard to believe is that genuine Rolex movements just aren't available in the quantities needed to facilitate "flooding the market" with fakes using them.
You can't just pop by your local RSC and say "I'd like to buy a complete 3135 please". Rolex will not sell you a single one, let alone bulk purchases to sustain a massive counterfeiting operation.

The only option then would be to source them on the secondary (used) market...In which case there are still not enough out there to "flood the market" with fake watches using genuine movements. I can maybe see a small-scale/one-man operation putting them together in limited numbers. However, the logistics and expense of sourcing complete genuine movements and retrofitting them into fake cases just doesn't make sense on the scale that the major counterfeiters operate at.
It is MUCH more cost-effective to simply clone a genuine movement, which has been going on for years (and they seem to be getting better with each evolution).

So, there really are only 2 explanations, IMO:

1. The scale of the "fake watches using genuine movements" problem is MUCH smaller than you (or "CSA") are describing.
2. The movements that some think are genuine, are simply really good clones.


Just my take anyway...

[GLADIATOR]

Originally Posted by freefly

Which models were they?
Surely you have photo-documented those 5 pieces, right? Let's seem them!
If they are truly "flooding" the market, I'm sure the sources have been identified by now (like all other suppliers of "super fakes" out there), right? So who are they? Where are they coming from? PM me if you don't want to discuss here.


I think the reason that your claim is a bit hard to believe is that genuine Rolex movements just aren't available in the quantities needed to facilitate "flooding the market" with fakes using them.
You can't just pop by your local RSC and say "I'd like to buy a complete 3135 please". Rolex will not sell you a single one, let alone bulk purchases to sustain a massive counterfeiting operation.

The only option then would be to source them on the secondary (used) market...In which case there are still not enough out there to "flood the market" with fake watches using genuine movements. I can maybe see a small-scale/one-man operation putting them together in limited numbers. However, the logistics and expense of sourcing complete genuine movements and retrofitting them into fake cases just doesn't make sense on the scale that the major counterfeiters operate at.
It is MUCH more cost-effective to simply clone a genuine movement, which has been going on for years (and they seem to be getting better with each evolution).

So, there really are only 2 explanations, IMO:

1. The scale of the "fake watches using genuine movements" problem is MUCH smaller than you (or "CSA") are describing.
2. The movements that some think are genuine, are simply really good clones.


Just my take anyway...

Eric
You can believe what you want.
You can also try to dispel the facts that these watches exist.

You can also make your claims that these are "just good clones" - its fine to me

Of course I have photos of the pieces we have seen.
Why should I share with you? You already know everything.

In conclusion, I have tried to warn members here, as has CSA.

People can decide as they please
I wont respond further

I already stated one was a DEEPSEA (James Cameron) the others were a HULK, a BATMAN and Submariner.
3135 movement
I also have a ladies datejust (older movement) and its fake too
A