bewildered- time grapher cited as changed movement

[Tbonewalk]

I had a weird incident. I sold a Hamilton Thin O Matic watch for $390. It looked new to me, I advertised it as new. The buyer, after 3 days- said he was away on business- tells me he put it on a time grapher and it beat at 21600/hour. He said it was made with ETA 2824-2 movement that beats at 28800/hour, and suggests the movement was changed, maybe to a 2840. The watch ran very accurately, within just +/- a few seconds/day. He wants to return it, I agreed. But on so many levels, this seems odd to me. Is it possible that someone would change the movement on a watch like this? Even if by some chance refurbished, I'd think if from the original dealer it would get the original movement. I understand wanting to get what you pay for, but on a relatively inexpensive watch like this, it seems picky to me. And it has been several days, so now I wonder if by some chance it was changed by him. That seems illogical to me as well though... bewildered...

[Mrjohnhuo]

Originally Posted by Tbonewalk

I had a weird incident. I sold a Hamilton Thin O Matic watch for $390. It looked new to me, I advertised it as new. The buyer, after 3 days- said he was away on business- tells me he put it on a time grapher and it beat at 21600/hour. He said it was made with ETA 2824-2 movement that beats at 28800/hour, and suggests the movement was changed, maybe to a 2840. The watch ran very accurately, within just +/- a few seconds/day. He wants to return it, I agreed. But on so many levels, this seems odd to me. Is it possible that someone would change the movement on a watch like this? Even if by some chance refurbished, I'd think if from the original dealer it would get the original movement. I understand wanting to get what you pay for, but on a relatively inexpensive watch like this, it seems picky to me. And it has been several days, so now I wonder if by some chance it was changed by him. That seems illogical to me as well though... bewildered...

I'll tell him stiff shit. It's a $390 watch, it's in mint condition. How much accuracy does he expect from a watch that price. If he wants accuracy, tell him to get a digital or quartz watch.

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[Tbonewalk]

Originally Posted by Mrjohnhuo

I'll tell him stiff shit. It's a $390 watch, it's in mint condition. How much accuracy does he expect from a watch that price. If he wants accuracy, tell him to get a digital or quartz watch.

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yeah... I don't mean to make light of someone's money but in the world of watches, this is pretty cheap, and in its own right, a discontinued, hard to find model. And his point is not the accuracy, but the "beats per hour"... I have to say, I find this kind of crazy.

[Tools]

Depends on the year of the Thin-o-matic.

The 60's models beat at 19,000BPH, and then had several movement changes over the years until getting the ETA2824-2 most recently

[Tbonewalk]

Originally Posted by Tools

Depends on the year of the Thin-o-matic.

The 60's models beat at 19,000BPH, and then had several movement changes over the years until getting the ETA2824-2 most recently

this is the most recent model, recently discontinued. I believe it is indeed listed as the 2824-2...

[toxicavenger]

On some of the newer Hamiltons they modded the movement to have a longer power reserve that in turn lowered the beat rate. I do not know if this model had that feature though.

[Tbonewalk]

Originally Posted by toxicavenger

On some of the newer Hamiltons they modded the movement to have a longer power reserve that in turn lowered the beat rate. I do not know if this model had that feature though.

how interesting!!! And this is a point that would be virtually impossible to verify, unless you perhaps open the watch... is the movement marked, like with "2824-2". I think they are indeed marked. But if you inquire, you will get a nice, helpful individual in customer service who will read info from a a sheet.

[toxicavenger]

Originally Posted by Tbonewalk

how interesting!!! And this is a point that would be virtually impossible to verify, unless you perhaps open the watch... is the movement marked, like with "2824-2". I think they are indeed marked. But if you inquire, you will get a nice, helpful individual in customer service who will read info from a a sheet.

I had a Hamilton King Khaki with a Hamilton Calibre H-40 automatic movement and it was a low beat modified 2824-2 that could only be regulated/service by Hamilton since it uses some kind of weights on the movement.

I would open it up and see what it is in it. This is what mine looked like.

[Tbonewalk]

Originally Posted by toxicavenger

I had a Hamilton King Khaki with a Hamilton Calibre H-40 automatic movement and it was a low beat modified 2824-2 that could only be regulated/service by Hamilton since it uses some kind of weights on the movement.

I would open it up and see what it is in it. This is what mine looked like.

is it marked H 40 or 2824-2... I bet it says H-40...

[toxicavenger]

Originally Posted by Tbonewalk

is it marked H 40 or 2824-2... I bet it says H-40...

I do not own it anymore to check it out. But I would think it would have to be marked.

[Tbonewalk]

Originally Posted by toxicavenger

I had a Hamilton King Khaki with a Hamilton Calibre H-40 automatic movement and it was a low beat modified 2824-2 that could only be regulated/service by Hamilton since it uses some kind of weights on the movement.

I would open it up and see what it is in it. This is what mine looked like.

and I can't comment on the quality control of these. They may perhaps be somewhat inconsistent.

[shaunylw]

Who is going through the trouble of swapping movements on sun $400 Hamilton’s?! Lol. That seems like an awful lot of work. I love watch guys but at the same time, i hate so many of us.


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[Tbonewalk]

Originally Posted by shaunylw

Who is going through the trouble of swapping movements on sun $400 Hamilton’s?! Lol. That seems like an awful lot of work. I love watch guys but at the same time, i hate so many of us.


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I just can't get this one. I have sold lots of watches and cannot recall a single one coming back to me. And I will address issues if a buyer has any... but this... I hate to make light of $400, it is a lot of money, but in the watch world it is not. The time grapher seems like a cool thing in a way, but is it really necessary... especially on a watch like this, at this price? It runs perfectly! That's what I do, wind it up! I happen to be a little nerdy about accuracy, but you see that real fast... if a watch is off, it loses or gains noticeably. It is perfectly reasonable to ask about accuracy... but who would ask about "beats per hour"... you know, there is time and investment on both parts in a deal. I don't think this is gentlemanly... it is hard to understand! Maybe it is just buyer's remorse...

[shaunylw]

Originally Posted by Tbonewalk

I just can't get this one. I have sold lots of watches and cannot recall a single one coming back to me. And I will address issues if a buyer has any... but this... I hate to make light of $400, it is a lot of money, but in the watch world it is not. The time grapher seems like a cool thing in a way, but is it really necessary... especially on a watch like this, at this price? It runs perfectly! That's what I do, wind it up! I happen to be a little nerdy about accuracy, but you see that real fast... if a watch is off, it loses or gains noticeably. It is perfectly reasonable to ask about accuracy... but who would ask about "beats per hour"... you know, there is time and investment on both parts in a deal. I don't think this is gentlemanly... it is hard to understand! Maybe it is just buyer's remorse...

i have a timegrapher and i buy and sell a lot of watches. I can’t tell you the beat rate off the top of my head for very many. It sounds like a tough buyer. I would highly doubt anyone swapped movements. That would be both weird and a huge waste of money.


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[edweather]

Buyer sounds like a nut. Hopefully the refund gets him out of your life for good.

[GLADIATOR]

Originally Posted by Mrjohnhuo

I'll tell him stiff shit. It's a $390 watch, it's in mint condition. How much accuracy does he expect from a watch that price. If he wants accuracy, tell him to get a digital or quartz watch.

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I doubt his complaint is accuracy as both movements are pretty accurate.
His complaint is if watch is 100% original - which I suspect it is.

Personally I photograph movement serial number and model before selling to stop any claims like this

A

[Tbonewalk]

Originally Posted by edweather

Buyer sounds like a nut. Hopefully the refund gets him out of your life for good.

I'm afraid you are right! Nothing I like more than a happy buyer, sometimes, you stay in touch, or exchange a few notes about your watches, etc... this was a blind sided response...

[Tbonewalk]

Originally Posted by GLADIATOR

I doubt his complaint is accuracy as both movements are pretty accurate.
His complaint is if watch is 100% original - which I suspect it is.

Personally I photograph movement serial number and model before selling to stop any claims like this

A

I am not set up or confident or qualified enough to do that. Maybe I should learn how to take a back off, etc. But truth is, I have done fine so far, doing things my way. I'd guess I've sold about 50 watches with no problems, all happy buyers I would say.

Everyone does things differently. I've bought Rolexs on ebay and don't even check em out. When I go to see my watch guy to adjust a bracelet, I ask him to take off the back. Sometimes that is later than sooner.

Again, this is his watch, he has to be happy. But I think most guys, especially in this price range, want the most important thing... to enjoy it. It is clean, pretty, put the watch on and dig it.

Can't see the forest through the trees- in a way, this guy out smarted himself. He found one little picayune thing that bugs him. So he is returning a nice watch that he has been after and is kind of hard to find. And you can't lose too much with this watch, at $390, you can surely sell it for about what you paid.

And on top of it, he is paying $20 to send it back and $20 to me to cover my shipping costs, so he is losing $40.

it is just weird... at least to me. Glad you guys kind of agree with me on this...