Confused about my future - MBA, LLM or start a business?

[Stig722]

A bit about myself, I'm 28 years old, highly motivated and I'm willing to make many sacrifices in order to be successful. My definition of 'success' is financial. I have two undergrad degrees, a B.A in business administration and an LL.B in Law. I have 5 years worth of work experience in a large law firm and during those 5 years I also completed an LL.M, although not from a particularly prestigious school.

Law firm life isn't for me, the ratio between stress and working hours to paycheck isn't satisfactory to me. My ultimate goal is to quit being an employee and start my own business or company.

For the last year I have been battling the GMAT exam as I had my mind set on an MBA from a prestigious school. So far my attempts at the GMAT have been poor as I found it impossible to study and keep up a full time job.

While I had me sights set on an MBA, I recently began to consider doing another LLM, but this time a business orientated LLM at a top law school (something along the lines of Stanford). I could easily get accepted into an LLM program as I have the necessary CV and the GMAT hell would no longer be a problem.

A third option would be to simply start a company or business now. This would be difficult though as I don't feel I am mentally prepared for such an endeavor not to mention the fact that I have little experience in the business world.

I know there are many very successful users on this forum, and I'd love to hear your thought and advice. Should I battle on and try to get myself into a top MBA program? Should I take the easy route and apply for another LL.M? Should I just start a company?

Here is a short list of pros and cons as I see them:

1. MBA
Pros:
1. Learn a lot about business.
2. Make valuable connections.
3. Massive list of alumni that could help with future endeavors.
4. Use the time to decide exactly what my company should be all about.
5. Would look great on my CV.
6. I feel that graduating from a top MBA would give me a massive confidence boost.

Cons:
1. Expensive.
2. Gmat is proving difficult.
3. Longer than an LLM.
4. Most MBA programs naturally lead to a corporate job and I want to start my own company.

2. LLM
Pros:
1. Easy to get accepted.
2. Cheaper than an MBA.
3. Shorter than an MBA.
4. Would still allow access to business school networking events on campus.
5. Would allow me to take a limited number of courses in the business school.
6. Once I graduate, I wouldn't feel compelled to get a corporate job.

Cons:
1. I already have an LLM.
2. I want to learn about business and open my own company. An LLM isn't really for that.


Would love to hear your thoughts and advice.

[CalSRQ1]

Not LLM if you don’t want a firm. Long term trends in law not good. MBA or start business.

[Vivalas]

I can’t advise you on the above because I haven’t got either of those qualifications, but I went self employed at 23 and have built a financial company and a property business and I always remember one bit of advice:

1. Find something you like doing.
2. Get food at it.
3. THEN find out how to make money out of it.

If you look for the money in something you hate, you’ll never last at it.

Good luck :-)

[bobernet]

Endless education is rarely the path to wealth.

Start a business.

[ecdc]

Lawyer here. Have had my own firm for the past 15 years after boutique and big law life. And I have a totally different side business. LLMs are worthless to everyone but the law school that charges for it. Don't waste any more time or money on one.

Want to start a business? You don't need an MBA. But you need a solid business plan and the ability to tell everyone why your business can do X better than anyone else. Get that figured out and give it a shot. Just keep up on your CLEs so you can jump back into law for the easy paycheck if needed. And remember, no business is better than a bad business. Take your time and get as much figured out beforehand as you can. There'll still be a ton of things you learn on the fly, no matter how well prepared you think you are. Good luck!

[Dubshack]

Work experience is often the best teacher. No amount of class work can imitate real life experience.

I’d find what you want to do, find the top companies in that profession, and then work for as many years as necessary until you feel ready to start a business yourself.


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[Houstongator]

MBA and lawyer. Have my own law practice.
After being in the military, I knew I never wanted to work for others.
Start your own business.
Best of Luck,
jb

[jhilly8982]

Originally Posted by bobernet

Endless education is rarely the path to wealth.

Start a business.

Completely agree, but one caveat.

Endless 'formal' education is not the path to wealth*

Education and learning is a lifelong process. You will learn more from doing than by theory, but there is a ton of content available for nearly free on the web. MIT OpenCourseWare, edX etc.

If you would need to take out student loans for an MBA, first assignment is to calculate the ROI on those loans.

[THC]

Bartend, then get elected to some high office

[superdog]

Originally Posted by bobernet

Endless education is rarely the path to wealth.

Start a business.

Yep.

[Lgear080]

The day I stopped learning (academically speaking) was the day I started earning.

[BBL]

Stig722:

For your reference: Different sites with common theme for small business but with other content, also, worth a read.

Small Business Administration https://www.sba.gov/

https://smallbusiness.com/

https://www.nerdwallet.com/blog/small-business/

https://www.forbes.com/small-business/#5507ff9d6d24

Good luck,
DM

[Wools]

My biggest advice is don’t treat financial success as success in life. It isn’t.

Find out what you enjoy, what you’re good at then chase that dream. There’s no rules for success, most of us just get lucky.

Best of luck.

[swils8610]

Paralysis by analysis. Go with your gut!


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[Lawman77]

Path of least resistance: trust fund or inherit family business. Or marry well.

[Stig722]

Originally Posted by Houstongator

MBA and lawyer. Have my own law practice.
After being in the military, I knew I never wanted to work for others.
Start your own business.
Best of Luck,
jb

Do you feel that your MBA contributed to your success?

Originally Posted by CalSRQ1

Not LLM if you don’t want a firm. Long term trends in law not good. MBA or start business.

I was hoping to use the LLM to network and get my foot in the back door of the business school on campus. I would take a many business related courses as possible. Have to plans to dreams of owning my own firm.

I should also state that I'm not based in the United States but I aspire to relocate to the west coast. I feel that a graduate degree would offer a soft landing into a new environment.

[timedate]

open a small solicitors* practice and specialise in conveyancing* and then take on the various partners you will need for the other specialities of law,

keep it highly professional at all times, be transparent and fair with your charges, adopt a caring 'old school' mentality and watch the repeat business and recommendations come in.

You are 28, time to earn. good luck.

*uk term for a lawyer, sadly being airbrushed out of existence
**uk term for the legal aspect of buying and selling property

[Blah114aa]

A key you’re maybe missing is mobility. Why not decide what you want, then research WHERE to make the most of it. This key, vital point is often lost on people. A lawyer in New York isn’t likely going to fare as well as a lawyer in a smaller city, even Kansas City, and so on. Yes. In New York, you can make more, but consider the competition, taxes, and ever changing politics there (for the worse, I might add, but that’s another discussion altogether).

Just my two cents. Be mobile. If you are a business analyst in Beijing China , with an automotive background, you’ll easily make six figures, likely 200k yearly. The same position in Midwest USA or Detroit even will be 70k. This is really a key point. I know a GM executive that talks openly about this often. He’s a family member.

The same goes for a restaurant or real estate agency... yes, in New York, you can do more business, but you’ll have far more competition and insane outright taxation... same with California.

I know a septic system guy. About to retire... he cleans septic tanks for a living. He has no college degree. He’s worth 11 million usd today—without his business sale— because he figured out to where he must move. He started his own company, moved to an area which was short on septic cleaning and maintenance, at the time. He now is going to retire at age 51 and is selling his business. Again, no college. Dropped out of high school in Texas. Had he not moved, though, he’d be working for someone else. He was smart in moving, uprooting his family and offering a service that was in high demand. If you care to know, he moved to New Orleans after Katrina, started his company, got all proper licensing, and had more contracts than he could handle in his first business year. Quite amazing story.

[Stig722]

Originally Posted by Blah114aa

A key you’re maybe missing is mobility. Why not decide what you want, then research WHERE to make the most of it. This key, vital point is often lost on people. A lawyer in New York isn’t likely going to fare as well as a lawyer in a smaller city, even Kansas City, and so on. Yes. In New York, you can make more, but consider the competition, taxes, and ever changing politics there (for the worse, I might add, but that’s another discussion altogether).

Just my two cents. Be mobile. If you are a business analyst in Beijing China , with an automotive background, you’ll easily make six figures, likely 200k yearly. The same position in Midwest USA or Detroit even will be 70k. This is really a key point. I know a GM executive that talks openly about this often. He’s a family member.

The same goes for a restaurant or real estate agency... yes, in New York, you can do more business, but you’ll have far more competition and insane outright taxation... same with California.

I know a septic system guy. About to retire... he cleans septic tanks for a living. He has no college degree. He’s worth 11 million usd today—without his business sale— because he figured out to where he must move. He started his own company, moved to an area which was short on septic cleaning and maintenance, at the time. He now is going to retire at age 51 and is selling his business. Again, no college. Dropped out of high school in Texas. Had he not moved, though, he’d be working for someone else. He was smart in moving, uprooting his family and offering a service that was in high demand. If you care to know, he moved to New Orleans after Katrina, started his company, got all proper licensing, and had more contracts than he could handle in his first business year. Quite amazing story.

Never even thought of things in this manner. Very interesting!

[Fleetlord]

Originally Posted by Blah114aa

A key you’re maybe missing is mobility. Why not decide what you want, then research WHERE to make the most of it. This key, vital point is often lost on people. A lawyer in New York isn’t likely going to fare as well as a lawyer in a smaller city, even Kansas City, and so on. Yes. In New York, you can make more, but consider the competition, taxes, and ever changing politics there (for the worse, I might add, but that’s another discussion altogether).

Just my two cents. Be mobile. If you are a business analyst in Beijing China , with an automotive background, you’ll easily make six figures, likely 200k yearly. The same position in Midwest USA or Detroit even will be 70k. This is really a key point. I know a GM executive that talks openly about this often. He’s a family member.

The same goes for a restaurant or real estate agency... yes, in New York, you can do more business, but you’ll have far more competition and insane outright taxation... same with California.

I know a septic system guy. About to retire... he cleans septic tanks for a living. He has no college degree. He’s worth 11 million usd today—without his business sale— because he figured out to where he must move. He started his own company, moved to an area which was short on septic cleaning and maintenance, at the time. He now is going to retire at age 51 and is selling his business. Again, no college. Dropped out of high school in Texas. Had he not moved, though, he’d be working for someone else. He was smart in moving, uprooting his family and offering a service that was in high demand. If you care to know, he moved to New Orleans after Katrina, started his company, got all proper licensing, and had more contracts than he could handle in his first business year. Quite amazing story.

Trades will make $$$ .

HVAC, Plumbing, Electrical, Framing..I could go on and on

[mbalmz]

I'm a corporate lawyer so can't weigh in super helpfully on the MBA/starting a business side of your question, but you definitely shouldn't get an LLM if you know you don't want to be at a law firm.

[TswaneNguni]

What ever gives you the best chance of being self employed

[Blah114aa]

Originally Posted by Fleetlord

Trades will make $$$ .

HVAC, Plumbing, Electrical, Framing..I could go on and on

this is more true today than ever before.. I know quite a few people that have started dry wall, HVAC, septic, plumbing companies.. over time, they are becoming millionaires. They do work extremely hard, but they are their own bosses.

I also know a few tradespeople whom work for companies and make six figures... there is a shortage also of truck drivers. That can be a grueling job, but anyone wanting to go into truck driving will make huge $$$$.. there are reportedly 60,000 truck driver jobs OPEN in the USA today. It's even worse reportedly in Europe. My source for this is a truck driver that retired and was interviewed on a CBS radio show a few weeks ago (a national show). I googled it and saw 3 figured.. one read 100,000 open positions.. this is of course due to Amazon and package shipment increases of all kinds. I could not never drive a truck, but it seems the people whom do drive trucks for a few years actually love such a job.

It will be interesting to see the job market in 20-30 years.. I think there will be a huge medical technician shortage as well by then, but won't say why. I just know a lot of people that work in Xray and while there's an overage today of staff/applicants, the schools for this are hurting today.. everything is cyclical. Maybe they'll outsource/offshore that by then.

[envuks]

I once was in a similar position to you. Did my undergrad with a dual major in finance and marketing. Found myself in my mid/ late 20s trying to determine if my next step was an MBA or JD.... I settled on MBA since I don’t love to read volumes and volumes.

The first step is to be clean on WHY you want said degree. For me it was to advance my career (position myself to be eligible for better roles). For you it sounds like a similar goal.

Next decide are you happy in your current job or not. If not, go for a full time program and lean in on the MBA experience. I had my sights set on Tuck, but eventually felt that leaving my job at the time wasn’t the right move for me. IMHO the only benefit to obtaining your MBA from a prestigious school is to get a great new job once out. There are a lot of downsides and risk that come along with that. Not to mention debt.

For me I decided to get my MBA part time. My employer at the time paid for much of it which was awesome. It took me 3.5 years to complete and I ended up with about $10k in debt, which I was fortunate to pay off in one year.

I will say that it didn’t lead directly to a promo or salary increase. It did lead to me finding a new job and running up the corp ladder at the new employer though.

I learned a lot and got the credential under my belt. I am happy I did it. To quote a CEO that mentored me “you don’t need the most expensive and prestigious MBA, but you certainly need one.”

Here are some observations that I have of your situation:
- if you don’t like the corporate law environment, you’re not likely to like the post-MBA job market much more. It’s very competitive, often stressful, and with long hours.
- while an MBA will help you to run your own business it’s certainly not the best learning ROI for an entrepreneur. If you truly planned to start your own business I’d recommend just diving in and learning what’s needed rather than pursuing the MBA first.

I know this doesn’t answer your question directly. Good luck!

[BrazenC5]

Originally Posted by Blah114aa

this is more true today than ever before.. I know quite a few people that have started dry wall, HVAC, septic, plumbing companies.. over time, they are becoming millionaires. They do work extremely hard, but they are their own bosses.

I also know a few tradespeople whom work for companies and make six figures... there is a shortage also of truck drivers. That can be a grueling job, but anyone wanting to go into truck driving will make huge $$$$.. there are reportedly 60,000 truck driver jobs OPEN in the USA today. It's even worse reportedly in Europe. My source for this is a truck driver that retired and was interviewed on a CBS radio show a few weeks ago (a national show). I googled it and saw 3 figured.. one read 100,000 open positions.. this is of course due to Amazon and package shipment increases of all kinds. I could not never drive a truck, but it seems the people whom do drive trucks for a few years actually love such a job.

It will be interesting to see the job market in 20-30 years.. I think there will be a huge medical technician shortage as well by then, but won't say why. I just know a lot of people that work in Xray and while there's an overage today of staff/applicants, the schools for this are hurting today.. everything is cyclical. Maybe they'll outsource/offshore that by then.

Automation will take over most of those positions (truck driving / radiology) in the next 10 years.

Specifically that's why there is a tough time filling trucking jobs...people see the imminent decline in longer term opportunity.

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[BLACKHORSE 6]

Originally Posted by THC

Bartend, then get elected to some high office

This

[77T]

IMHO, I sense a bit of tunnel vision regarding degrees. It may be the way you defined success over the past decade. But more degrees can over emphasize the theoretical side of any business. BTW, what color is your parachute?

Regarding starting a business, two lines of thought - Financial & Satisfaction:

Financial-
I don’t know how you’d capitalize a new venture unless you already have a million or two lined up as working capital. Banks already know the failure rates on new small businesses. It reminds me of the advice I give drivers who want to start new teams - the best way to make a million in motorsports is to start with 10 million.

Satisfaction-
While many think they will be satisfied as their own boss, they are actually beholden to customers, the bank, legislators and the whims of business cycles. Then you also get to dice with competitors whose goal is to treat your GPM as their opportunity. If stress is your friend, and and if you can do as Rudyard Kipling wrote, “meet with triumph and disaster and treat those two imposters just the same” then you may enjoy running your own business.

My bottom line...
I think you might make a good consultant in intellectual property if you wanted my 2¢...




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[BLACKHORSE 6]

Some good observations in this thread so far.

For me, the MBA experience has been very rewarding. I graduate in May. Did an “Executive” MBA program so was able to stay employed during the two years. Just accepted a position at a small company that is looking to grow and am really excited about the opportunity and where it will lead. Start the job next week and can’t wait!

Don’t take the following as gospel. Obviously, experiences vary:
-shop MBA programs carefully. Not only is school “prestige” a big factor, but different programs have different focuses. My MBA program is more entrepreneurial than most, both in the curriculum and the type of people that they attract. Others have a strong emphasis on finance. Be sure you think carefully before choosing.
-going full time means you can get it done quickly and devote your full attention to academics. If you do it part time and continue to work, be sure you have the support of your employer. My employer fought me the entire time, and it made things difficult (they weren’t paying for anything). I am surprised by how many of my classmates are having issues with their employer now that we’re about to graduate, as everyone assumes that they’re job searching or looking for a promotion if they stay with their current companies.
-don’t be one of those people who get a MBA and then walk around with your hand out as if you’re owed something. The only reason you should be paid more or have new opportunities is because you should bring more to the table.
-The work/family life balance is non-existent. If married, be sure you have the full backing of your spouse. My wife told me she was pregnant with our second the first week of class, and delivered him a few hours after I finished exams for the second semester. She is a saint, and deserves more credit than I can possibly give her.
-a lot of people get an MBA and go into finance, especially if they graduate from a fancy school. I knew that wasn’t for me. I’m a field/operations guy and want to stay there. What makes the MBA so good for me is that now I can talk to the finance people, or the marketing people, or whoever, and know what they’re talking about and ask smart questions.

Feel free to PM me if you’d like any more details.

Best of luck!

[Joeguy]

Look around to find a role model. Someone who’s life and accomplishments are appealing to you. Emulate that behavior. See if that is for you and don’t be afraid to change careers if it’s not a good fit.

A lot of times people run the programming their parents instilled. Even if they are successful at it, they still usually wake up one day and question their decisions.

In my experience, when you are working your way down a career path and you run into an obstacle like a GMAT, you have a little soul searching to do.

Sometimes people buckle down and get over the obstacle, sometimes they might decide that the prize (working in a law firm) isn’t worth the effort. I would recommend considering the possibility that this line of work isn’t for you. It doesn’t make you bad.


And if you’ll indulge an old retiree who can’t help himself ...

1. Reconsider using financial success as a measuring stick of you as a person.

2. Maybe somewhere beyond my experience some employer cares slightly about what school you went to, but MOST don’t. You check the box by having a degree.

3. IMO only, the extra debt you occur for the more prestigious schools is USUALLY not worth it. You’ll get far more value from a mid-tier education.

In any case, GOOD LUCK!


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[TheVTCGuy]

Stig, I can’t offer much advice but wish younhe best, if it’s any conciliation I’m confused about my future too... and I’m 55 years old!