Value of papers question

[peterp]

What is the value of papers? I have an option to buy 3y old OP 39 10% less compared to similiar model with papers. Is it adequate? What abaut resale ? Both watches are used so discount to new included in both offeres.

[BillA]

Could be looked at many ways. It is one way to prove authenticity of the watch you are buying. I also think that if a seller keeps all the goodies in the box, you have a better chance that the watch is authentic.

[bobernet]

I’d buy a full set for only 10% difference.

[1665fan]

Get the one with papers...papers can add 20% of value on desireable sport models, the OP is not but papers will always help

[padi56]

Originally Posted by peterp

What is the value of papers? I have an option to buy 3y old OP 39 10% less compared to similiar model with papers. Is it adequate? What abaut resale ? Both watches are used so discount to new included in both offeres.

To me the so called papers are just a warranty paper like you get with say a TV.If its expired well its just a bit of paper or card and today these bits of paper do not prove 100% authenticity of any watch.As with today's technology these items are far easier to fake that the actual watch.Myself always buy condition and price first,buy from a reliable source.Then if over a certain age I would budget for a RSC service, after service you will have service papers or card, with all the watches information and that will act like a valid two year warranty.

[beshannon]

Originally Posted by peterp

What abaut resale ?

When do you intend to resell? What is the price difference that you expect to earn?

[peterp]

I expect not to further loose because of this in the future. That is enough. If no one would buy without papers is a death end.

[Fallranger]

I’ve had real trouble selling without papers. Seems 75% of the people out there want full kits. I’m sure you can sell it without but will be much harder. I will never buy without full kit again unless it is a keeper forever or I get a killer deal.


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[Batmannr1]

The current plastic warranty card is not that easy to counterfit. The very fine print is very difficult to reproduce. It certainly adds value to a watch. For me as a buyer it gives extra assurance I am not being screwed over.

[Kliminator]

I'd pay an extra 500-1000 for a full set. Yes it does help the resale value down the road should you choose to sell but something about having it all is oddly satisfying as well.

That being said, I have purchased without as well :)

[watchmaker]

To the watch buying public at large I don't think it will make a big deal. Add this the fact that if you keep it long enough to have it serviced you get a Rolex warranty card - I think that is good enough. As Padi said once the warranty is expired it is just a (useless to many people) piece of plastic.

OP 39 is not really an 'investment grade' watch and are easy enough to get hold of so I'd say if you struggle to sell it for any reason it would be that fact, and not the lack of papers. Just my two cents though.

[stainlesssteve]

To me its an additional assurance that the watch was not stolen from some guy off the street.

[Tools]

Originally Posted by peterp

I expect not to further loose because of this in the future. That is enough. If no one would buy without papers is a death end.

You won't lose anything. Market value is market value, unless you are intent on staying on Forums where everything is thought of in terms of dollars and rarity of every paint chip. Even if it has been refinished properly, some on Forums think that there should be a price adjustment.

"Papers" are only as valuable as you want them to be. If you are able to save 10%, good for you. The only thing you might "lose" is 10% if you have to sell, and you didn't pay it in the first place.

The exception would be a very rare collector piece, which you are not talking about.

[Seibei]

Just get one that has the full set. You really have nothing to lose by getting it. If on the other hand you decide not to get the full set you may regret it. Selling the watch will be much harder and you will of course get less money for the watch.

The bottom line is that at the end of the day you are not saving anything by buying a watch that does not have the full set. The only time I would even consider doing that is if I was 100% sure that I would never ever sell the watch.

If, for some reason I did decide to buy a watch without the full set, then I would make sure of the provenance and I would be pushing for a significantly larger discount than 10%.

Finally, there is probably something fishy going on if a 3 year old Rolex does not have the full set.

[101031-28]

10% less would not be attractive enough for me to forego papers. Unless it was for a discontinued/hard to find model. In which case, I would work out the selling price as best as I could then send to RSC for authentication/service and obtain their warranty paper.

[bonsai-man]

For me the papers are not just an old expired warranty they are unique to the watch (unlike the box) and irreplaceable. PP use the term “Certificate of Origin” rather than warranty card, its the same thing but I feel its a better description.

Rolex only issue one set of papers per watch and will not replace lost or damaged papers, a “service warranty card” is not equivalent to original papers its a 2-year warranty card that can be easily replaced with another service and nothing special.

I never understand why so many on here so easily dismiss Rolex papers as worthless junk, but I respect their view. For me a full set is far more desirable, but not essential for a Rolex if a decent discount is offered, after all it’s only a watch.

[bonsai-man]

Originally Posted by bonsai-man

For me the papers are not just an old expired warranty they are unique to the watch (unlike the box) and irreplaceable. PP use the term “Certificate of Origin” rather than warranty card, its the same thing but I feel its a better description.

Rolex only issue one set of papers per watch and will not replace lost or damaged papers, a “service warranty card” is not equivalent to original papers its a 2-year warranty card that can be easily replaced with another service and nothing special.

I never understand why so many on here so easily dismiss Rolex papers as worthless junk, but I respect their view. For me a full set is far more desirable, but not essential for a Rolex if a decent discount is offered, after all it’s only a watch.

O-AW is that matches I hear, it’s better to burn out than fade away.

[sillo]

Originally Posted by bonsai-man

For me the papers are not just an old expired warranty they are unique to the watch (unlike the box) and irreplaceable. PP use the term “Certificate of Origin” rather than warranty card, its the same thing but I feel its a better description.

Rolex only issue one set of papers per watch and will not replace lost or damaged papers, a “service warranty card” is not equivalent to original papers its a 2-year warranty card that can be easily replaced with another service and nothing special.

I never understand why so many on here so easily dismiss Rolex papers as worthless junk, but I respect their view. For me a full set is far more desirable, but not essential for a Rolex if a decent discount is offered, after all it’s only a watch.

I completely agree.

Also notice how much faster box/papers examples move in the classifieds. Especially the older they get.

[DLRIDES]

Originally Posted by bonsai-man

For me the papers are not just an old expired warranty they are unique to the watch (unlike the box) and irreplaceable. PP use the term “Certificate of Origin” rather than warranty card, its the same thing but I feel its a better description.

Rolex only issue one set of papers per watch and will not replace lost or damaged papers, a “service warranty card” is not equivalent to original papers its a 2-year warranty card that can be easily replaced with another service and nothing special.

I never understand why so many on here so easily dismiss Rolex papers as worthless junk, but I respect their view. For me a full set is far more desirable, but not essential for a Rolex if a decent discount is offered, after all it’s only a watch.

This

[77T]

As others have stated it depends upon the buyer’s preferences.

Once Rolex initiates random serial numbers, the only way to know the age of a watch is the original paperwork.

And better if the seller has an original receipt from AD with that seller’s name on it. That way the buyer knows it was a “one owner” watch - and that it wasn’t stolen.


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[jimcameron]

If you are buying a 3 yr old OP I would not worry about the papers. It is not a collectors watch that a private owner will ever make any $$ on if they decide to sell. It's a great watch, it's not a money maker.

[Sublovin]

Normally I say who cares, but in this case the watch should still have 2 years of warranty remaining, so it would be nice to have warranty card for that reason.

[nuts070]

Can the rehaut serial number be already faked to nullify the usefulness of the warranty card and papers?

[joli160]

Originally Posted by bonsai-man

For me the papers are not just an old expired warranty they are unique to the watch (unlike the box) and irreplaceable. PP use the term “Certificate of Origin” rather than warranty card, its the same thing but I feel its a better description.

Rolex only issue one set of papers per watch and will not replace lost or damaged papers, a “service warranty card” is not equivalent to original papers its a 2-year warranty card that can be easily replaced with another service and nothing special.

I never understand why so many on here so easily dismiss Rolex papers as worthless junk, but I respect their view. For me a full set is far more desirable, but not essential for a Rolex if a decent discount is offered, after all it’s only a watch.

This sums it up exactly

[bonsai-man]

Originally Posted by jimcameron

If you are buying a 3 yr old OP I would not worry about the papers. It is not a collectors watch that a private owner will ever make any $$ on if they decide to sell. It's a great watch, it's not a money maker.

The warranty is tied to the serial of the watch not the warranty card, Rolex will know when the watch was originally sold so I would expect Rolex to honour any time remaining regardless of the card. With most warranties a proof of purchase is usually required to indicate the date of sale, but as Rolex already knows the sale date and as the warranty follows the watch it should not be required.

[Sublovin]

Originally Posted by bonsai-man

The warranty is tied to the serial of the watch not the warranty card, Rolex will know when the watch was originally sold so I would expect Rolex to honour any time remaining regardless of the card. With most warranties a proof of purchase is usually required to indicate the date of sale, but as Rolex already knows the sale date and as the warranty follows the watch it should not be required.

When I have submitted a watch to RSC their typical protocol is that you have to include either the warranty card or copy of it, if the watch is under warranty

[bonsai-man]

Originally Posted by Sublovin

When I have submitted a watch to RSC their typical protocol is that you have to include either the warranty card or copy of it, if the watch is under warranty

If you have it its easier, but they will still do the warranty work

[bonsai-man]

I think the link between the papers and the warranty is moving away from the OP’s intention of this thread, the price premium or collectable value of having original papers, box etc. So, to get back on topic,

I can understand not keeping expired warranties 30+ years ago when a Rolex was literally just a watch, much like Bulova Accutron and Pulsar LED watches which were just as expensive at the time. This is 3 years old and in warranty, I don’t keep expired papers for TV’s and microwaves, but modern high-end watches today are more about “the Art of Horology”. Why else would someone in their right mind pay £10,000 for a steel chrono or £50,0000 for a steel Patek no one ever heard of.

I for one am thankful Rolex and Patek had the sense not to keep “just the watches” and destroy the obsolete historical archives they kept, I guess they don’t see their work as “just a watch” like we do though.

[jcross]

Originally Posted by nuts070

Can the rehaut serial number be already faked to nullify the usefulness of the warranty card and papers?

Yes, but is the serial number valid is the question. I just purchase a Datejust 41 from a Grey Dealer off Chrono24 that had a few hundred positive reviews but of course I was still a bit nervous that I would get a fake. He got me a brand new watch from an AD full box and papers with my name on the warranty card. This was my procedure:

1. Inspect the warranty card against my Submariner's card that I purchased from an AD.
2. Compare the serial number on the card against the Datejust
3. Went on Bobs Watches and ran the serial number to see if its valid and what years that serial represents.
4. Next is doing what you can to test the movement such as winding the watch and audibly hear if it sound and feels premium ie heavy clicks and not loose when winding. It's similiar in feel to my Sub but slightly different sound.
5. I check to see what the directions the hands move when I turn the Crown Clockwise, the Datejust 41 hands should move counter clockwise when the crown is turned clockwise. Ceramic Subs hands will move in the direction you turn the Crown.

Outside of visual inspections I like the box and papers matching the serial number to the watch and validating that part on top of everything else I mentioned as a good procedure to validate authenticity. Only other thing is obviously having your local AD do all this for you.

[Fallranger]

Originally Posted by jcross

Yes, but is the serial number valid is the question. I just purchase a Datejust 41 from a Grey Dealer off Chrono24 that had a few hundred positive reviews but of course I was still a bit nervous that I would get a fake. He got me a brand new watch from an AD full box and papers with my name on the warranty card. This was my procedure:



1. Inspect the warranty card against my Submariner's card that I purchased from an AD.

2. Compare the serial number on the card against the Datejust

3. Went on Bobs Watches and ran the serial number to see if its valid and what years that serial represents.

4. Next is doing what you can to test the movement such as winding the watch and audibly hear if it sound and feels premium ie heavy clicks and not loose when winding. It's similiar in feel to my Sub but slightly different sound.

5. I check to see what the directions the hands move when I turn the Crown Clockwise, the Datejust 41 hands should move counter clockwise when the crown is turned clockwise. Ceramic Subs hands will move in the direction you turn the Crown.



Outside of visual inspections I like the box and papers matching the serial number to the watch and validating that part on top of everything else I mentioned as a good procedure to validate authenticity. Only other thing is obviously having your local AD do all this for you.

I’ve never bought a used Rolex but I’ve heard enough horror stories to know 100% that I would want to open it up to inspect the movement. Wouldn’t do that myself so I guess it would need to be taken to a trusted jeweler.


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