Bundle ... thoughts?

[Andygmt2]

Just wanted to get your views given I have no PP history, been offered a aquanaut 5164a but on the basis I purchase a PP 5524r at the same time.

Deal or no deal? The aquanaut is the watch I’ve wanted to add to the collection, having looked more into the 5524r, must admit that’s also growing on me too though it was never a piece I thought of or even looked in to before.

I guess now, especially in the UK or worldwide even, with no PP purchase history, unless they deal multi brands, you won’t even be considered a nautilus or aquanaut piece even if you were on some ‘list’

[Jonbut76]

Sounds pretty good to me?

If you will wear the 5524r then that’s great or else just sell it for a small loss.

This would be cheaper than buying the 5164A grey plus you now have a good “relationship” with your AD.

[Fat_ninja]

Cheaper to go grey?

[Acquisition40]

Will you be ok with two travel times?

[The Argonaut]

Why would you want two travel time watches? Also, I get that you can sell the 5524R, but have you seen the grey prices for a new 5524R? It's $10k less than MSRP. So lets think about this: the 5524R and 5164A will set you back around $90k, and you flip the 5524R for around $40K, losing $10k on the deal; alternatively, you can spend $55k and get the 5164 on the grey market, saving you $35K and the pain of flipping a watch and instantly losing money on it.

I understand you don't want to pay $55k for a 5164 with a retail price of $35k, but its that or buy into an AD relationship for a watch you're sure to lose money on and that has identical functionality to the 5164. Either that, or wait until the bubble bursts or ask the AD to bundle a different watch.

A poor deal to my mind.

[Andygmt2]

Originally Posted by Acquisition40

Will you be ok with two travel times?

Of course, my Rolex collection includes 3 GMTs :) BLNR/BLRO/CHNR

[GreenLantern]

Originally Posted by Jonbut76

This would be cheaper than buying the 5164A grey plus you now have a good “relationship” with your AD.

This ^^.

[JayG]

If you love the 5524r and money is no object than do it, and you have established a connection with your PP AD.
I wouldn't do it because the PP pilot travel time in any iteration does not appeal to me at all

[ap1]

Sounds good to me if you have the wrist for it

[V25V]

Originally Posted by Fat_ninja

Cheaper to go grey?

+1, just go gray and get the one you want. Will be less money than buying one you do not. And that Pilot has never done a thing for me, so I may be biased with this one but think my feelings would be the same no matter what they bundle it with.


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[V25V]

Originally Posted by Jonbut76

Sounds pretty good to me?

If you will wear the 5524r then that’s great or else just sell it for a small loss.

This would be cheaper than buying the 5164A grey plus you now have a good “relationship” with your AD.

If he flips the 5524, how is that building a relationship with the AD? Would he openly do that? 5164 is 35k Msrp, gray is 50k or so. You will easily take a 10k bath on the 5524, all that drama over 5k? Pass.


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[Jonbut76]

Originally Posted by V25V

If he flips the 5524, how is that building a relationship with the AD? Would he openly do that? 5164 is 35k Msrp, gray is 50k or so. You will easily take a 10k bath on the 5524, all that drama over 5k? Pass.


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Always ideal if the bundle is for two watches that the OP wants to keep of course.

What the OP does with the 5524 after buying it is his business. It’s not like it’s a super hot piece and he can sell it if he wants to. It’s up to him if he wants to be upfront with the AD. I might say that I’m not 100% sure I will keep it and leave it at that.

I was not aware that the bath would be that big on the 5524R. Thanks for the info. That does change things quite a bit and as you suggest the drama may not be worth it from a financial point of view.

At least the OP gets his foot in the door with the AD though if he wants other references that are hard to come by.

[sensui]

Bundles are only acceptable when you're buying watches you actually want.

[Andygmt2]

Originally Posted by The Argonaut

Why would you want two travel time watches? Also, I get that you can sell the 5524R, but have you seen the grey prices for a new 5524R? It's $10k less than MSRP. So lets think about this: the 5524R and 5164A will set you back around $90k, and you flip the 5524R for around $40K, losing $10k on the deal; alternatively, you can spend $55k and get the 5164 on the grey market, saving you $35K and the pain of flipping a watch and instantly losing money on it.

I understand you don't want to pay $55k for a 5164 with a retail price of $35k, but its that or buy into an AD relationship for a watch you're sure to lose money on and that has identical functionality to the 5164. Either that, or wait until the bubble bursts or ask the AD to bundle a different watch.

A poor deal to my mind.

Cheers all, and thanks for the thoughts/notes. I didn’t realise the drop would be that much on the 5524r, so will think things through before making the call. I might just wait for other ADs to come through on the 5164a alone as there is no rush

[GreenLantern]

Originally Posted by Andygmt2

Cheers all, and thanks for the thoughts/notes. I didn’t realise the drop would be that much on the 5524r, so will think things through before making the call. I might just wait for other ADs to come through on the 5164a alone as there is no rush

The drop is that much on just about anything not-Aquanaut or Nautilus.

[The Argonaut]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern

The drop is that much on just about anything not-Aquanaut or Nautilus.

Absolutely. If the OP sells the 5524 himself, he’ll get more; if he sells it to a Grey, he’ll likely get around $35k. That’s a $15k loss right out of the gate.

I’m a big fan of the 5524, but it’s a real hit and miss watch: half like it, half dislike it.


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[The Argonaut]

Originally Posted by GluryOl

Tell him u will bundle with a 5711

That’s what I’m talking about. Go large, go loud!


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[BigAppleBill]

Bundle with a watch you’ll wear or go grey.

[The Argonaut]

Originally Posted by Andygmt2

Just wanted to get your views given I have no PP history, been offered a aquanaut 5164a but on the basis I purchase a PP 5524r at the same time.

Deal or no deal? The aquanaut is the watch I’ve wanted to add to the collection, having looked more into the 5524r, must admit that’s also growing on me too though it was never a piece I thought of or even looked in to before.

I guess now, especially in the UK or worldwide even, with no PP purchase history, unless they deal multi brands, you won’t even be considered a nautilus or aquanaut piece even if you were on some ‘list’

Regardless of the merits or demerits of this deal, the real questions are, "do you want an AD relationship? Are there other PP pieces you're after? Does this AD sell anything besides PP that you want?" If the answers are all "yes," then take the deal, and flip the 5524 after 8-12 months (you don't want to make it look too obvious that you flipped it.), or bundle with another watch you wan't.

If you have not had an AD relationship before, maybe you haven't needed one. If you only want the 5164, go grey. Yes, the watch is overpriced and likely not worth $55k, but it will save you from: (a) a ton of hassle and getting something you don't want to get something you do; (b) losing money on the bundle mentioned; and (3) having to regularly "service" the AD relationship to make it worth the AD's time to get you "hot" pieces (or whatever you are looking for) from time to time. Are you prepared to spend more money, long term, with the AD? If you are not, then there you are. Grey it is.

[Codik]

Bundles are unethical. Do not encourage.

[The Argonaut]

Originally Posted by Codik

Bundles are unethical. Do not encourage.

Seriously. I asked my local AD recently about bundling a 116519, plus a $10k ring for the wife, to get me on the list for a 5167. Lets just say I wasn't all that encouraged by his equivocal answer: "it might help, but it wouldn't guarantee you a 5167." Bollocks to that. Despite really liking the 116519, I'm not dropping $40k for the privilege of maybe, just maybe, being allowed to spend a further $20k. What kind of jacked up universe are we living in?

What tangled webs we weave.

[Calatrava r]

Originally Posted by The Argonaut

Why would you want two travel time watches? Also, I get that you can sell the 5524R, but have you seen the grey prices for a new 5524R? It's $10k less than MSRP. So lets think about this: the 5524R and 5164A will set you back around $90k, and you flip the 5524R for around $40K, losing $10k on the deal; alternatively, you can spend $55k and get the 5164 on the grey market, saving you $35K and the pain of flipping a watch and instantly losing money on it.

I understand you don't want to pay $55k for a 5164 with a retail price of $35k, but its that or buy into an AD relationship for a watch you're sure to lose money on and that has identical functionality to the 5164. Either that, or wait until the bubble bursts or ask the AD to bundle a different watch.

A poor deal to my mind.

Actually its even worse if you figure the grey "margin". If they sell for 10K less than MSRP than the sale to them or a private sale price is closer to the used wholesale value which is another 5K down the drain.

[jon_jon]

The 5164 and the 5524 wear quite differently on the wrist, although they are both travel time watches. The 5164 has the tropical strap and the 5524 a leather strap. 5524 wears larger on the wrist as well.

I think it is a reasonable AD offer if you like the 5524. The 5524G was a "hot watch" here on TRF for several years. And now everyone is complaining it is selling at lower than list price on the gray market.

Get the watches you like and enjoy

[GreenLantern]

Originally Posted by Codik

Bundles are unethical. Do not encourage.

Only things that violate a code of ethics are unethical. :)

That said, I don't agree with encouraging bundles... except in initial relationship building cases. How else will you prove to an AD that you aren't a flipper?

[AK797]

Price of the 64 over here is very high so I get the temptation, clearly the AD benefits from this double sale so I would only agree if you get something extra out of this too, ie another watch you want that will materialise in short order, if this is believable then go for it, otherwise go grey and don't reward the AD for nothing.

[GreenLantern]

Originally Posted by ohforpsake

you can report to the. uk distributor Rhone....patek takes. a very negative view on bundling... a well known us company lost. its dealership due to bundling as a result of. the direct intervention of an. ex member....

Not that I like the idea of bundling, but I wasn't aware that Patek frowns upon it.

What are other methods for an AD to ensure that you aren't simply a flipper looking to get a 5711 to make a quick $35k?

I'm curious, myself, as I don't really know many other ways.

[ts3]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern

Not that I like the idea of bundling, but I wasn't aware that Patek frowns upon it.

What are other methods for an AD to ensure that you aren't simply a flipper looking to get a 5711 to make a quick $35k?

I'm curious, myself, as I don't really know many other ways.

Bundling feels like extortion to me and I'd not forget an AD trying to force sth down my throat I didn't come in to buy.

The most efficient way to prevent flipping for the AD is withholding the papers but a would-be flipper might still sell w/o papers for less gain.

This all feels like kindergarden and will hopefully go away again. I'd much rather have the old system where you got on the list and waited, at times for years, until you got the call. It mattered little how much you had spent in the mean time and it was nobody's business what happened to the watch after you got it.

Not that I encourage flipping but from my small-fish perspective a flipped watch provides at least liquidity to the (grey) market which gives people the opportunity to get what they want right now, albeit at a different price. I'd rather have another 5711 show up at a grey than an AD give a 5711 as a thank you / part of a bundle to a whale for buying a high-end piece that may be that guy's 5th Nautilus and disappear in the safe for good.

[WatchLurv]

Bundles happen all the time with ADs. It's nothing new.

Some of you in here make it sound like selling a watch is:
1. A violation of trust / policy to the AD
2. Patek will suddenly find this watch on the grey market and shut down the AD
3. A ton of headache

@OP: buy the 2 watches. Sell the 5524R and incur a small loss unless you really fall in love with it. Also who says you can't have 2 travel timers? I have 3. And I will most likely have 4 when I get my hands on a 5990.

[GreenLantern]

Originally Posted by ts3

Bundling feels like extortion to me and I'd not forget an AD trying to force sth down my throat I didn't come in to buy.

I agree. That said, I wouldn't ever accept a bundle I don't want. So, what you stated won't really apply to me, and I think doesn't apply to most people here who accept bundles.

Originally Posted by ts3

The most efficient way to prevent flipping for the AD is withholding the papers but a would-be flipper might still sell w/o papers for less gain.

Honestly, I would never, ever, ever, accept this deal. If I'm buying the watch, the papers are mine. Period. From day zero.

The most effective way to prevent flipping is to not have absurd market conditions caused by intentional, arbitrary, and artificial production constraints. I prefer the "Ferrari" way: build one less than the demand.