Sub paranoia

[hertzen]

Friends,

I've recently helped a friend of mine to avoid buying a counterfeit sub. All is well that ends well, however, I should say, I was amazed by the rep quality. The small details were right and, more importantly, it felt right. Now it induced a bit of paranoia in me.

Below are the photos of one of my watches, 114060, purchased slightly (6 months) second hand 4 years ago. The watch itself was checked before the purchase through one of very respectable local watchmakers / workshops and I had no doubts of it's being genuine for the years I was wearing it.

However, there are two macro-factors that now bother me enough to create this thread : )
1) Slight misalignment of the rehaut - see "o" and "x" being off-center on the first two pics.
2) Hand stack looking like it has a hole, although it could be lighting.

I know, I know, "wear, enjoy, don't bother yourself" and stuff like that - but wanted to make an extra check. Am I being paranoid?

[imperial2687]

I think that the rehaut etching looks fine.
One of the things i look for is the use of the circular end-plate that tightens the hand-stack, you have that clearly visible. From what I have seen on youtube videos, that is seldom copied correctly

Yes the rehaut is slightly misaligned, but you can get that in rare circumstances. I have read this somewhere on TRF but I can't find the link

Best way to authenticate is to get a watchmaker to take a look at the movement

[hertzen]

Thanks!

Re movement inspections - agreed, but did not want to open the watch without any serious reasons to do so.

[AF_Rob]

The rehaut is misaligned because the picture is not aligned with the watch.

[MattyIce3285]

OP, does the crystal have a very hard to see laser etched crown at the 6? The other posters are correct that if you have serious doubts, the best way to alleviate them is to have the movement inspected.

[SDREW22]

I'm not sure 1:1 reps were available four years ago. Not like the ones today at least.

[garyk]

Totally bogus, better send it to me.

[hertzen]

Originally Posted by MattyIce3285

OP, does the crystal have a very hard to see laser etched crown at the 6? The other posters are correct that if you have serious doubts, the best way to alleviate them is to have the movement inspected.

Basic stuff like the crown is there, although it's a bit hard to use the crown as a tell - it's now being faked on fake crystals as well (and sometimes the replicas could have real parts, e.g., real crystal).

The two things above (rehaut and hands stack) are the only two elements that raised suspicion.

[padi56]

Originally Posted by imperial2687

I think that the rehaut etching looks fine.
One of the things i look for is the use of the circular end-plate that tightens the hand-stack, you have that clearly visible. From what I have seen on youtube videos, that is seldom copied correctly

Yes the rehaut is slightly misaligned, but you can get that in rare circumstances. I have read this somewhere on TRF but I can't find the link

Best way to authenticate is to get a watchmaker to take a look at the movement

If anything its the dial that to some will say is misaligned slightly to the rehaut on the movement top plate dial has a tiny bit of lateral movement when attached to movement, the rehaute cannot move as it is on the solid steel case ring.Trouble today many have loupe high magnification mania, and with many today Rolex no longer make watches they now make alignment points.The dimple on centre of dial where the hand stack is complete normal its mainly there to strengthen the brass dial.

[hertzen]

Originally Posted by SDREW22

I'm not sure 1:1 reps were available four years ago. Not like the ones today at least.

To the best of my knowledge they were not, but who knows if they were "not available in principle" or "not distributed well enough".

[smym18]

Honestly the same exact thing happened to me a few years ago and due to the same reasoning - how good I realized fakes were and the rehaut (or dial) being misaligned. It was just a case of paranoia.

[Rori]

What jumps to my eyes is the hole in the center on the center of the hands looks too wide and the crown on 12 o’clock is way off to the right of the letter L.


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[Patton250]

The rehaut on my brand new green sub is off pretty good. I don’t care. I suppose they’ll fix it 10 years from now if and when I send it in.

[padi56]

Originally Posted by Patton250

The rehaut on my brand new green sub is off pretty good. I don’t care. I suppose they’ll fix it 10 years from now if and when I send it in.

Its the dial on the movement top plate thats slightly off, the rehaut cannot move as its part of the case ring,but expect a blind man would love to see it..

[MasonDixon]

Did the watchmaker open it up and check the movement?

[Annan]

Originally Posted by Rori

What jumps to my eyes is the hole in the center on the center of the hands looks too wide and the crown on 12 o’clock is way off to the right of the letter L.


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Far from being an expert but IMO the crown being to the right of the "L" in Rolex is not an issue. That's just how the spacing and shape of "L" will make it appear. I checked a dial from the Rolex website and it looks the same. A better indicator is that the crown lines up on the triangle above it.

[tcheeco]

I don’t have one single Rolex with a “perfectly aligned” dial/rehaut. And I have many of them

[hertzen]

Originally Posted by Rori

What jumps to my eyes is the hole in the center on the center of the hands looks too wide

Yes, that's something that I was talking about. This was triggered by me watching macro-reviews of new generation reps and the holes they have. However, the thing is, I also had a macro-photos of this of the gen sub and it looks different. Where is this pic from?
Anyone here is an expert in hand stack holes? Like did they change it at some point in time?

Originally Posted by Rori

and the crown on 12 o’clock is way off to the right of the letter L.

I think it's parallax / lighting - looks good IRL to me.

Originally Posted by MasonDixon

Did the watchmaker open it up and check the movement?

No - to the best of my knowledge.

Originally Posted by tcheeco

I don’t have one single Rolex with a “perfectly aligned” dial/rehaut. And I have many of them

That's one more thing: when you guys say misaligned rehaut (or dial, whatever is miaslianged in reality) - is it "equally" miasliagned throughout the dial? Id est - it's just rotated by a small degree to the left / right?

Because in my case it's arguably not that: crown on rehaut is exactly on 12 market. Than, if you go clockwise, the misalignment is larger and larger, with 5 mark being closer to the right side of the "X". But if you go counter-clockwise, it (at least looks) aligned. So it's not like it's just rotated by a small degree.

[Rori]

Originally Posted by Patton250

The rehaut on my brand new green sub is off pretty good. I don’t care. I suppose they’ll fix it 10 years from now if and when I send it in.

Your looking to the wrong side. The shot you’re showing the 12 o’clock side, upper half of the dial, the r will be off because of the triangle / crown location. However, if you want to have a look it’s toward left and right half’s of the dial. Left side will have the Letter R centered behind every minute index. The right half will have the letter X centered behind every minute index.


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[Patton250]

Originally Posted by padi56

Its the dial on the movement top plate thats slightly off, the rehaut cannot move as its part of the case ring,but expect a blind man would love to see it..

Couldn’t agree more. It doesn’t bother me at all. Although I did first see it with the naked eye.

Originally Posted by Rori

Your looking to the wrong side. The shot you’re showing the 12 o’clock side, upper half of the dial, the r will be off because of the triangle / crown location. However, if you want to have a look it’s toward left and right half’s of the dial. Left side will have the Letter R centered behind every minute index. The right half will have the letter X centered behind every minute index.


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Be honest with you I don’t know what you mean.

[tjs1295]

How well does your watch run? I was always under the impression that no matter how good those fakes looked, they just didn't keep very good time. I could be wrong on that though.

[eonflux]

Most rehauts I've seen have not been properly, including all of mine

[hertzen]

Originally Posted by tjs1295

How well does your watch run? I was always under the impression that no matter how good those fakes looked, they just didn't keep very good time. I could be wrong on that though.

I think they could be quite precise.

This particular watch was running very good for the first 3+ years. Now it's gains about 50-90 seconds every month, but I think this might be due to it being slightly magnetized.

Originally Posted by eonflux

Most rehauts I've seen have not been properly, including all of mine

But what is your definition of misalignment? See my post above - that's what I have.

[johnjm]

All of my rehauts are perfect except for one. I did notice it at first but meh, doesn't make a difference to me.

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[Bigblu10]

Originally Posted by tjs1295

How well does your watch run? I was always under the impression that no matter how good those fakes looked, they just didn't keep very good time. I could be wrong on that though.

Many things besides this. The winding, date and time setting and "smoothness" of the crown action is not comparable in a fake vs. genuine. Fakes can't reproduce the "feel" of a real Rolex movement.

Rehaut vs. dial misalignment is common on the real deal. As been said there is a bit of lateral movement when tightening the dial to the movement plate. This is what gives you the slight off center look.

[hertzen]

That's what I mean:

Crown is ok (a bit of parallax, looks 100% aligned IRL).
R on 9 is ok.
R on 7 is ok.
X on 3 is off.
X on 5 is off.

[csaltphoto]

Originally Posted by tjs1295

How well does your watch run? I was always under the impression that no matter how good those fakes looked, they just didn't keep very good time. I could be wrong on that though.

I spent a little time down that particular rabbit hole as a way of getting to "know the enemy". My take away was that the clone movements aren't bad but are poorly assembled and lubricated. There is this whole secondary market for the hobbyists of people who take the fakes apart, clean and lubricate then reassemble. The fakes aren't very waterproof either and that can't be fixed since the effort is all surface level and not build engineering.

[Rori]

Originally Posted by Patton250

Couldn’t agree more. It doesn’t bother me at all. Although I did first see it with the naked eye.



Be honest with you I don’t know what you mean.

I mean:
The letter R of the Rolex word engraved on the rehaut is aligned with the minute index 35, 40, 45, 50 and 55.
The letter X of the world Rolex engraved on the rehaut is aligned with the minute index 5, 10, 15, 20, and 25.
The alignment is spot on.


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[hertzen]

Originally Posted by Bigblu10

Rehaut vs. dial misalignment is common on the real deal. As been said there is a bit of lateral movement when tightening the dial to the movement plate. This is what gives you the slight off center look.

The one thing that bothers me is that in this case misalignment would be the same across the dial, whereas in my case it's just some parts that are not aligned (see above).

So it's rather "misengraving" than "misalignment".

Am I missing something?

[Brny11]

100% normal. Same dial issue with my 114060 I owned a few years back. Rehaut issue is extreamly common as is bezel alignment, hour hand alignment, magnification issues, etc.

Don’t sweat it. If you really can’t get past it, send to RSC for “estimate” and they will authenticate it.