Vintage Rolex owners petition.

[Rori]

In the link bellow, I’m sharing a video of of one of the best vintage Rolex experts in the world. I really enjoy all his videos but I found this one to be particularly interesting because he touches on the subject of RSCs destroying vintage Rolex.
I thought that this subject may be of interest to some forum members.
There’s a sort of group now or lobby of thousands of members that are trying to put pressure on Rolex to change the workflow they follow servicing a watch. They are asking Rolex not to touch anything cosmetic of a vintage watch keeping dials, hands case in original shape.
He gives 2 examples of two subs “comex” models that have lost 100000 and 40000 euros in value respectively due to the bad restoration approach by RSC.
After watching this video I became really baffled as why Rolex is not paying attention or taking special care of its vintage models. In my opinion, when a vintage model hits an RSC they should be treated and serviced differently than models watches.

https://youtu.be/k89g-QMoyMc


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[007timer]

I can tell you that it’s based on quotas and assembly line. Herd them in and push them out. I have read countless posts on TRF about bad polishing jobs, over polishing and damaging the case when removing the bracelet. So to hear that they botched a vintage watch is not that surprising.


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[rootbeer7]

I’ve used RSC London and they don’t.

[Ignace Worang]

No RSC in CZ, hence most works are sent to Geneve which is slow but amazing

[dive_and_ride_1965]

RSC Paris now only do vintage (30 year old watches) and did great job for my wife 30+ Rolex and my 54+.
They send you list of work, little negotiating to keep original hands on mine but they did accept.
If you don't want them to change what needs to be changed according their standards then you just get the watch back.

[SearChart]

Rolex want to repair the watch and get it as close to the condition as when it left the factory as possible.

They do not care about patina and I don't think a group of salty vintage collectors is going to change that.

[watchmaker]

Originally Posted by SearChart

Rolex want to repair the watch and get it as close to the condition as when it left the factory as possible.

They do not care about patina and I don't think a group of salty vintage collectors is going to change that.

Completely agree

There are thousands of competent conservation watchmakers worldwide that can clean and oil your Rolex without changing any parts.

Rolex want your watch to function as they intended it to

[Woody]

Originally Posted by rootbeer7

I’ve used RSC London and they don’t.

x 2 - they have always provided me with excellent service and I have been able to talk through my requirements with them in person at the RSC, via e-mail or a phone call

[jimcon11]

I am admittedly not well informed on the subject.. I've owned one Rolex and never committed it to a RSC, but this is kind of my outsider's theory:

Rolex knows that their unique and immensely strong brand image in the public consciousness is their most valuable asset. So every action they take is designed to bolster that image, which is one of Rolex watches being the ultimate in reliability, durability, and immaculate finishing. Vintage watches inherently depart from that image for the obvious reason that things deteriorate over time. So in a sense, they are a threat to the company.

Rolex doesn't want to acknowledge that their watches deteriorate, that this deterioration could in fact be desirable, that their best designs may be behind them, or that watches don't have the same relevance today that they did in the pre-digital age. Giving credibility to any of these uncomfortable ideas would hurt the prospect of selling new watches. Hence, they are ignored when watches are serviced. The goal of the service is the same as general production: bring your watch up to the latest standards befitting the traditional Rolex ethos.

Make no mistake, I think the collector community and vintage market is extremely important to Rolex; it plays its own part in generating mystique and prestige for the brand. It's just that the best thing for the vintage market is paradoxically to shun it. The concerns of vintage collectors are largely antithetical to the long-established brand image, the ubiquity of which has kept Rolex from the conglomoratized fate of other watchmakers, who have been more or less forced to admit that they are now nostalgia-driven entities and whose long term prospects are bleak.

[athom]

Originally Posted by SearChart

Rolex want to repair the watch and get it as close to the condition as when it left the factory as possible.

They do not care about patina and I don't think a group of salty vintage collectors is going to change that.

+1000 They do not care and they never will...the only thing we'd be that the y give back all parts like Omega, for example...

[iliketime]

rolex doesnt care about its vintage owners in the way other companies do.

[watchmaker]

It's not true to make the blanket statement that they don't care about vintage owners. They do.

What is not their concern is the perceived value attached to old components.

You are free to decline any work they propose if it involves changing parts that you are attached to, but it doesn't mean they are compelled to offer a different level of service. They want your watch to be as close to 100% functional as it was originally intended.

This is where independent watchmakers come in.

Rolex would never get any work done if they had to concern themselves with the financial consequences of every part they change.

[zapokee]

The guy's French in the original video is beautiful.

But why is the word for "watch" feminine in French (cette montre) but masculine in Italian (questo orologio), when they're both from the same Latin/Romance roots? Gender is almost invariably parallel in Romance languages. This is a notable exception.

Admittedly, I may need to get out more. #everythingisweird

[Styles Bitchley]

There is no hard and fast rule as to what Rolex will do with vintage. I had a service at RSC Toronto al long time ago where they recommended a dial replacement on my red Sub. I also had a service at Rolex HQ in Geneva where the the gentleman at the service desk emphasized to NOT change the dial.

I think Rolex will do what they like if they can get away with it. Remember that they’re also trying to get rid of (or at least not encourage) the secondary market that has guys selling parts on eBay and the like.

Where I think they may actually be compelled to change their policy is if they have KNOWINGLY diminished the value of a watch without informing the customer. I don’t think anyone working at Rolex can honestly say they are unaware of the value of original vintage Rolex watches and parts. After all, didn’t Rolex themselves recently bid on and win a major vintage piece at one of the recent Geneva auctions?

[214270Explorer]

Better to just go with a known Independent rather than attempting to dictate anything to Rolex.

Suggesting they change their 'work model' is fruitless.

Part of why we have Independents, anyway is so a customer can get exactly what they want, with no hassle or danger of their instructions/desires being ignored by an RSC.

[Tools]

We've been telling folks for years to choose a good vintage restoration specialist when having their vintage watches serviced if they are collectibles.

Hard to imagine that a petition is suddenly going to give the techs on the RSC floor, insight into what is, or is not, necessary, or what the respective value is, on older pieces.

[Thuilln]

Originally Posted by zapokee

The guy's French in the original video is beautiful.

But why is the word for "watch" feminine in French (cette montre) but masculine in Italian (questo orologio), when they're both from the same Latin/Romance roots? Gender is almost invariably parallel in Romance languages. This is a notable exception.

Admittedly, I may need to get out more. #everythingisweird

Interesting observation. That’s the beauty of different languages. You’re privileged to be able to speak or at least understand/care enough more than one.
It’s definitely not the case for many...

[zapokee]

Originally Posted by Thuilln

Interesting observation. That’s the beauty of different languages. You’re privileged to be able to speak or at least understand/care enough more than one.
It’s definitely not the case for many...

Thanks. I speak decent Japanese, too. Just sayin'. #NotToBragButBragging

Agree that there's no point in a petition. Rolex ain't shifting for anybody.

Going to an independent is the answer, but unfortunatley the average non-"Watch Guy" who inherits a nice vintage watch doesn't know this, and doesn't come here to ask first.

[Nikrnic]

I'd go with an independent professional for a restoration of a vintage piece. Rolex main concern is to sell new watches.

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[JohnnyM]

The owners need to take responsibility here.

Either specifically tell Rolex to not change dials, hands, etc or take it to an independent. Of course RSC is there to service the watches and bring them as close to new as possible.

I don't have a problem with Rolex at all here.

[chocopeluche]

If you send a watch to RSC, I thought they give you a big list of stuff they want todo, and you opt-in, some things are all or nothing.

With that said is it common for RSC todo extra work that was not agreed too, like polishing or replacing dials ?

[athom]

Also when they serviced for example in the 80s a GMT from the 60s, that didn't devaluate at all the price of the watch back then... Nowdays it has a big impact of the price but who would have known that 30 years ago...? The solution would be to just give back the parts they replaced but you can't service a watch without trying their best to make it as functional, as waterproof, etc...as possible...

[rokonman]

In my experience with RSC NY and Dallas,I was able to choose to keep original dials and hands. One of my dials was a very well done refinish and Dallas was either fooled or didn’t care as no comment was made. I wanted mine polished but others here have declined polishing. A choice I wasn’t given was to keep original date wheels. Perhaps do to the fact they are movement parts with a possible effect on operation?

[zapokee]

Seems different RSCs have different policies. Some will entertain requests, while others won't.

[tekno]

Wouldn’t Rolex be part of the reason that untouched/un-bastardized examples are worth so much. I don’t know if the guys who are hardcore vintage enthusiast care to send their watches to RSC. They have so much tied up in the pieces, they just wouldn’t risk it.

Plus think of all the guys who specialize in restoring vintage Rolex, it keeps guys like LAWW, MY, The Ridley Father and Son, Rollieworks etc etc in business. I would rather deal with guys who know what they are doing and have a presence in the hobby, stake in the game/a reputation.

The only thing Rolex should do differently is offer a list of competent watchmakers who specialize in Vintage watches in the respective country. Then offer parts to these watchmakers? Maybe that already happens, not sure.

I think it’s BS they keep the old parts.






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[Chester01]

Originally Posted by athom

Also when they serviced for example in the 80s a GMT from the 60s, that didn't devaluate at all the price of the watch back then... Nowdays it has a big impact of the price but who would have known that 30 years ago...? The solution would be to just give back the parts they replaced but you can't service a watch without trying their best to make it as functional, as waterproof, etc...as possible...

See, this is the challenge. Making and keeping watches "functional" is in Rolex DNA. This whole wrist watches really being collectable is in fact quite new. Most people wore the helll out of their watches, literally worn in many instances during combat, and were concerned with a tool watch being...well a tool, and not a coin or baseball cased sitting under glass. Rolex is not in the business of being a museum curator, they make bulletproof watches, as I respect that. Its like they are not buying into the hype that these things should be sitting in a case, but rather being enjoyed.

[watchmaker]

Originally Posted by chocopeluche

If you send a watch to RSC, I thought they give you a big list of stuff they want todo, and you opt-in, some things are all or nothing.

With that said is it common for RSC todo extra work that was not agreed too, like polishing or replacing dials ?

Polishing is offered for free as standard so it is an opt out deal.

There is an infinitesimally small chance of a replacement dial against your wishes and without them notifying you.

The only time you are getting a free dial is if they negligently cause damage to it (slip when removing/fitting hands for example).

However it is not unheard of for disclaimers to be made before work commences if the dial looks to be damaged already (chipped paint or lume). They will advise a replacement and if you decline notify you that they will not be held responsible if it degrades further while being handled.

[Styles Bitchley]

Originally Posted by watchmaker

Polishing is offered for free as standard so it is an opt out deal.



There is an infinitesimally small chance of a replacement dial against your wishes and without them notifying you.



The only time you are getting a free dial is if they negligently cause damage to it (slip when removing/fitting hands for example).



However it is not unheard of for disclaimers to be made before work commences if the dial looks to be damaged already (chipped paint or lume). They will advise a replacement and if you decline notify you that they will not be held responsible if it degrades further while being handled.

I’d also assume that if it looks to the technician that the lume on the dial or hands is likely to crumble off any time soon and end up in the movement that replacements would not be optional for a full service.

[brandrea]

Originally Posted by SearChart

Rolex want to repair the watch and get it as close to the condition as when it left the factory as possible.

They do not care about patina and I don't think a group of salty vintage collectors is going to change that.

Originally Posted by watchmaker

Completely agree

There are thousands of competent conservation watchmakers worldwide that can clean and oil your Rolex without changing any parts.

Rolex want your watch to function as they intended it to

Perhaps I’m mistaken but doesn’t Rolex offer a vintage service out of Geneva... some sort of bespoke offering that specializes in vintage? I thought I read this here somewhere

I figured perhaps either of you might know...

[LSU-MOOSE]

I wish I had done more research on this topic.

In April Of 2020 I purchased a late 60’s 1675 GMT Pepsi from an estate. I brought it to my local AD for service when they reopened in May(COVID). I had a very extensive conversation with them about keeping all visible parts original. I wanted the “mechanics” and water seals checked.

They contact me and tell me it has to go to Switzerland. I say OK. I’m thinking that’s good. WRONG!!!!!

They contact me July 3rd and give me the repair estimate that includes replacing EVERYTHING visible. Dial, all hands, bezel, crown and repair the mechanics. I tell my AD I don’t won’t ANY of those items replaced as we previously discussed(now I’m upset) and they tell me that Rolex has told them it’s all or none. Now I’m pissed. I told them that I want my watch back untouched.

I am currently waiting for its return. You cannot believe how frustrated I am.

I’ll need some advice on what to do with it now.