Opinions on refurbished or redialed?

[kip595]

In full disclosure, my own opinion is strongly against re-painted/restored/refinished dials, with the singular exception of when an identical NOS OEM dial can be found to replace a dial completely beyond salvage, which in my experience is fairly uncommon.

Not once, but twice today, I had people (not here, in day-tp-day life) try to sell me Rolexes - one was fully re-dialed and re-handed because for some reason they sent the 1970s era Oyster to Rolex for service , and the other was a WG DJ that for one reason or another had been repainted at some point in its life.

What both confuses and annoys me is that when I explained my disinterest in them, for these reasons, they both wanted to defend that a: these were not modifications of the original watch, and b: somehow they wanted to convince me that these were improvements!

From a person literally expecting me to hand them thousands of dollars in cash: "I mean, it's not an investment."

Am I alone in my bewilderment at two so-called 'watch people', one professionally, trying to pass these things off as not only ok, but better?

Sorry if I sound ranty, but I am genuinely flummoxed by this, so I'd love to hear other folks' opinions on what such modification (updates, if you must) does in your eyes to the piece itself.

[seabreeze60]

No to Rolex.

OK with vintage Omega.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[TimeLord2]

No. You're on the right track. Vintage is maintaining the original parts of the watch, dial, hands, insert, chamfers, etc. Large reduction in value, and not what a true collector would be interested in obtaining. You dodged a bullet. Oh, and I'm adding this. Visit the VINTAGE section.

[davesmith121]

i wouldn't go for refurbished

[kip595]

Oh I love the vintage section on the forum here; I just put this topic into general because I'm seeing it more and more on newer pieces as well these days. And I completely agree vintage means vintage.

[Dan S]

This is perhaps a small point, but it sounds to me that you may be conflating a few different things in the same post, including refinished dials and service dials. When you send a watch to Rolex, they may certainly replace the dial and hands with service parts, but this isn't generally referred to as "re-dialed", which implies re-painting. As far as I know, Rolex generally doesn't re-paint dials, although perhaps there are rare exceptions to this.

Anyway, like you, personally I am most interested in collecting watches that are as original as possible, and if someone offered me a collectible watch with a refinished (or service) dial, I'd also probably decline politely. If they try to convince you that the restoration increases the collectibility of the watch, then they are definitely insulting your intelligence.

However, restoration/refurbishment has its place, and obviously it is done because the owner feels that it improves the watch, so the sellers were not totally wrong. Without knowing how the watch looked before restoration, it's impossible to judge whether or not it was an improvement. I also agree with those sellers that you shouldn't think about the watch as an investment, so if you like the look of a watch with service parts, and the price reflects the condition, then the seller is doing nothing wrong. Very often, an owner had Rolex replace the dial because it improved the look and functionality of the watch. They weren't thinking about the collectibility of the watch 30 years in the future.

So I think it's too strong a statement to be "strongly against" service parts. There is nothing wrong with them per se. They are totally authentic "repairs" by the manufacturer, and they have their place. But yes, in today's market they greatly reduce the value of a collectible watch, so someone should not try to sell a watch with a service dial at the price of a fully original example.

[springer]

Refinished dials are common on certain models - namely the Datejusts and Day-Dates. It's been this way for decades. Most owners aren't "collectors" and when dial shopping, they don't really care if a dial is refinished. They are after a certain look and price point. Diamond dials are one of the most common dial swaps where you have diamonds added to a genuine dial or to a refinished dial. The price difference is substantial between 100% genuine and refinished.