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Old 30 July 2020, 01:15 AM   #1
edhahn44
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Nautilus buying advice

I'm about to going grey for a 5712/1A, preferably an earlier version with the Geneva seal.
I own a couple of vintage and neo vintage Rolex and ALS models, but I'm new to the Nautilus game. Hence, I'm struggling a bit to boiling it down to the best option to choose from.

Any advice from experts on what exactly to look at for this specific model? What details distinguish a mint (unpolished) watch from a polished one? Any other details to look at?

Any initial thoughts in this piece for example:
https://www.chrono24.de/patekphilipp...id13277144.htm


Thanks in advance
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Old 30 July 2020, 02:04 AM   #2
Custom02
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Unless there’s a premium for the Geneva seal (if so, first I’ve heard of it but would be interested to know if that’s the case) that seems like very big money for a 5712. In London they go for £55k absolutely unworn with 2019/2020 papers.
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Old 30 July 2020, 02:19 AM   #3
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My general advice for those new to buying pre-owned Pateks, is to always take into account the possibility of the watch needing a service, if the watch is more than 3-4 years old.

We see many threads of Patek enthusiasts buying pre-owned and expecting a perfect new watch. These are delicate watches and over time, they will need a service periodically. On a Geneva seal watch, that is more than 10 years old, I would take into account a possible need for servicing, unless the seller can provide recent service papers. IIRC the Patek Seal replaced the Geneva seal around 2009.
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Old 30 July 2020, 03:30 AM   #4
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We had a very similar thread the other day, it’s still on front page https://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=754385 if you’re after a Geneva seal 5712 I’d get 2006 first year of production, otherwise personally I’d just buy new and best condition.
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Old 30 July 2020, 03:40 AM   #5
Bearxj86
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If your budget allows, consider the 3712a too.
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Old 30 July 2020, 06:34 AM   #6
ts3
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Quote:
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We had a very similar thread the other day, it’s still on front page https://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=754385 if you’re after a Geneva seal 5712 I’d get 2006 first year of production, otherwise personally I’d just buy new and best condition.
Just curious, why would you prefer 2006 over 2007-2009? The Geneva seal was in use into 2009 when the Patek seal was introduced.
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Old 30 July 2020, 06:06 PM   #7
ts3
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Originally Posted by edhahn44 View Post
I'm about to going grey for a 5712/1A, preferably an earlier version with the Geneva seal.
I own a couple of vintage and neo vintage Rolex and ALS models, but I'm new to the Nautilus game. Hence, I'm struggling a bit to boiling it down to the best option to choose from.

Any advice from experts on what exactly to look at for this specific model? What details distinguish a mint (unpolished) watch from a polished one? Any other details to look at?

Any initial thoughts in this piece for example:
https://www.chrono24.de/patekphilipp...id13277144.htm

Thanks in advance
I'd look at the following:

1) How sharp is the octagonal bezel (often polished terribly round, especially on older gold Nautilus)?
2) Is the linear polish on the flat part of the bezel as fine as on a new watch?
3) Are the flanks/edges of the midcase still sharp (where are normal watch would have lugs)?
4) Do case and bracelet shine the same way (often not the case if a watch has been partially polished)?
5) How is the condition of the bracelet overall, including scratches on the links near the clasp and elsewhere (some are sold as new/unworn despite opening and closing the clasp has scratched up the links near the clasp, which will happen when you wear it)?

On your chrono24 example the edges of the midcase seem to have lost a lot of their original sharpness due to polishing.

If I was spending 60+k on a grey market 5712 I would get a new/unworn one, ideally with some of the 2-year warranty left. I don't think examples w Geneva seal from 2006-2009 will be worth more than recent ones w Patek seal in the long run, there are too many of all of them. One last consideration is that some people prefer examples w screws connecting the last bracelet links rather than bolts, another "downgrade" from some years ago.

If you are in it for collecting the rare 3712 is worth considering but as a daily I would go 5712.
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Old 30 July 2020, 09:52 PM   #8
edhahn44
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Thanks for all the valuable feedback, much appreciated.
Quite some arguments for going for a newer, unworn version or a 3712. Let's see what's available and how much I have to go above retail.
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Old 30 July 2020, 10:17 PM   #9
Russell996
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I would suggest being patient, put your name down at an AD and buy at retail.
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Old 30 July 2020, 10:31 PM   #10
edhahn44
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I would suggest being patient, put your name down at an AD and buy at retail.
Patience is not my stronghold. And at least here in Germany it seems that waiting lists (or what is considered being a waiting list) are still considerably packed...
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Old 30 July 2020, 11:48 PM   #11
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I would suggest being patient, put your name down at an AD and buy at retail.
I agree this is a good approach with an honest AD that you actually trust. The vast majority of AD's play games with bundling and everything else, and have little to no interest in fostering a new relationship unless you're going to open up the bank account now.

If you want the watch and don't have the patience for the time required or the games you're likely to encounter, go gray. Get it on your wrist and enjoy it. If you put some time into this and purchase wisely, your downside is probably rather limited. 5712's aren't falling to retail anytime in the near future.
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Old 31 July 2020, 12:24 AM   #12
Russell996
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I agree this is a good approach with an honest AD that you actually trust. The vast majority of AD's play games with bundling and everything else, and have little to no interest in fostering a new relationship unless you're going to open up the bank account now.

If you want the watch and don't have the patience for the time required or the games you're likely to encounter, go gray. Get it on your wrist and enjoy it. If you put some time into this and purchase wisely, your downside is probably rather limited. 5712's aren't falling to retail anytime in the near future.
I only deal with honest AD’s, never even come across a dishonest AD - I don’t believe this is atypical, few bad ones give the rest a bad name which isn’t justified.
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Old 31 July 2020, 02:46 AM   #13
edhahn44
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Really might need to go grey since I'm not a big fan of the AD games. Let's see if I find a mint model below € 60k which seems feasible given current price development.
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Old 31 July 2020, 03:55 AM   #14
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Really might need to go grey since I'm not a big fan of the AD games. Let's see if I find a mint model below € 60k which seems feasible given current price development.
I bought a new one late last year from a grey, no regrets. I never understood waiting years to purchase at retail. Bragging rights I guess.
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Old 31 July 2020, 04:15 AM   #15
Russell996
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I bought a new one late last year from a grey, no regrets. I never understood waiting years to purchase at retail. Bragging rights I guess.
If there is such a thing then bragging rights is surely going grey.
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Old 31 July 2020, 06:20 AM   #16
bob101
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Just curious, why would you prefer 2006 over 2007-2009? The Geneva seal was in use into 2009 when the Patek seal was introduced.
Historically the first year of production of a certain model often does better and can be seen in auction results. There are also often slight differences with first series version over latter hence more desirable.
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Old 31 July 2020, 04:08 PM   #17
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I bought a new one late last year from a grey, no regrets. I never understood waiting years to purchase at retail. Bragging rights I guess.
Wait is part of the game and increases the anticipation. Of course if you are 60, then the prospect of waiting 5 years is not to enticing but for someone being 30-35 - why not? Put your name down, call periodically and chances are you will get it in a few years.
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