Really? Are you actually paying these gray market prices?

[BillA]

Just as the title says, looks like gray prices and resales on forum member pieces are higher. Asking over $8K for an Explorer (214270) with a msrp of $6550. Just one example. Are you really paying these numbers for a mass produced, SS watch? I just don’t think these pieces are that hard to get. If you go to a few AD’s put your name on a list for an Explorer, you will get one in a few months.

[brandrea]

I suppose it depends on the AD.

I can see why those with the means just prefer to buy now and receive the watch in a day or two vs. waiting.

I’m patient so I only buy gray if it’s a reference that my AD doesn’t carry

[harvey]

They are fishing, hoping some caught up in the frenzy, bite!

[rtalk]

To each their own. People don’t want to wait and I also think some people don’t trust ADs.

Plus if you are really wealthy, what does it matter.


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[didikwahyu]

If it's cheaper than AD ....why not

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[macrowatch]

Are people really paying or Tesla stock at these prices?

For those that bought 10 or even 100 shares of tesla a year ago, and don’t want to wait, why wouldn’t they pay these relatively small premiums relative to their investment gains as a reward or milestone to themselves?

I agree the secondary price are crazy, but some people are beneficiaries in other asset bubbles and cash out and celebrate.

[Podmornica]

BillA, I was with you regarding this one even before the March 2020. However, what I realized is that the prices on grey market are going up with each passing month.

It's disgusting considering the shape of economy and job losses, but that's the way it is with Rolex.

I am on the fence myself actually and will hold until May 2021 to see if anything will change considering the availability and economy in general. If it doesn't, I think I will pull the trigger and buy what I want on the grey market without playing games with my AD.

All you can hear are the stories that now people have even more money to spend on watches than before the pandemic as they were sitting at home and didn't spend on holiday journey and other stuff. You can hear as well that ppl who lost jobs were not the Rolex buyers anyway, so they are not influencing the prices on grey market.

If these current grey prices survive the Winter of 2020 and Spring of 2021 intact, I don't think we will be seeing them go lower ever again, especially considering the inflation. Hardly anything that goes up with Rolex is returning to previous values ..

[offrdmania]

The prices keep going up because people are paying these ridiculous prices.

[neilm92]

I completely agree. I find myself attracted to some variety of watches recently, TAG Heuer being my latest weird infatuation. I can't fathom why, like you say, a SS mass produced, technically average watch, can ask such a price. It all comes back to the brand recognition I guess. Rolex is now(probably more for the past 10 years), a statement piece rather than a tool. To each their own of course, but for me, I think the only new Rolex I ever buy, will be an old Rolex.

[77T]

Some asking prices are 50% higher than MSRP and moving briskly. Our avocation has moved up the scale - but callouts make little sense here.

What would a Bonfire of the Vanities serve?


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[1William]

As this topic continues to march forward despite the evidence present at hand I ask, why not? I keep up with the market and routinely buy from our Trusted Sellers at the best fair market price I can get at the time. I purchased all three SS Sky-Dwellers above retail and can make thousands off the sale should I decide that is the direction I want to go. I have a Hulk, new Pepsi, a Daytona-C in SS, a DSSD JC new style and two Explorer II's all purchased from our Trusted Sellers. At any point I want to trade or sale I will get fair market value from them. I refuse to play the AD game, wait and then still not get the watch I want. I have always had the attitude that I will buy what I want, when I want it and get the best price I can get. The problem is not with the Grey Market nor the AD's. It is Rolex and the minute they decide to stop the silliness they can. But they won't, so on and on we go.

[supernova]

If the price reaches an amount then obviously there are people paying the prices that is moving it up. That’s how a free market moves.

Nothing wrong with it either, some like to acquire the piece they really want regardless of prices and grey dealers will try make as much money to feed their families.


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[BillA]

Originally Posted by 77T

Some asking prices are 50% higher than MSRP and moving briskly. Our avocation has moved up the scale - but callouts make little sense here.

What would a Bonfire of the Vanities serve?


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Paul,
Not are some 50% higher, some are 100% over msrp!
I think there are also some other things going on here under the heading of human nature.
1. We become a “ Now” world. When we want something, we want it Now. No longer can we wait, but we really can have it tomorrow. Sites like Amazon feed into this. Order it today, and many items can be delivered tomorrow. In fact in some cities, you can get same day delivery!
2. “What you can have you don’t want, and what you cannot have, you want”. If all SS Rolex Professional pieces were sitting in the AD’s display, we would not demand them. I remember a few years ago walking into my local AD and they always had an Expl II, Explorer, Hulk in the display. Those times have changed. The AD could not give away the Hulk, then. Now a different story.

[BillA]

Originally Posted by 1William

As this topic continues to march forward despite the evidence present at hand I ask, why not? I keep up with the market and routinely buy from our Trusted Sellers at the best fair market price I can get at the time. I purchased all three SS Sky-Dwellers above retail and can make thousands off the sale should I decide that is the direction I want to go. I have a Hulk, new Pepsi, a Daytona-C in SS, a DSSD JC new style and two Explorer II's all purchased from our Trusted Sellers. At any point I want to trade or sale I will get fair market value from them. I refuse to play the AD game, wait and then still not get the watch I want. I have always had the attitude that I will buy what I want, when I want it and get the best price I can get. The problem is not with the Grey Market nor the AD's. It is Rolex and the minute they decide to stop the silliness they can. But they won't, so on and on we go.

You have quite a nice and envious collection. Some of us who like the brand don’t have excess monies to burn. You seem successful and paying continually over msrp is not a problem for you and your life style. Congratulations.

[77T]

Well, I can’t make a value judgement since I am an Amazon Prime member and if I wanted to waste $$$ on overpriced models, I could.

I don’t choose to, though.

Those who do pay the high prices from secondary marketeers have the means so that’s a choice they make in a free market.


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[Dyim]

FOMO.

The newer generation doesn’t need, or want to wait for anything. Everything is what you want, and when you want it.

When I was young, I have to get up to the TV to change the channel.

Now, it is all on your phone with a finger swipe. Everything on demand! Right now!

[Rashid.bk]

Originally Posted by BillA

Just as the title says, looks like gray prices and resales on forum member pieces are higher. Asking over $8K for an Explorer (214270) with a msrp of $6550. Just one example. Are you really paying these numbers for a mass produced, SS watch? I just don’t think these pieces are that hard to get. If you go to a few AD’s put your name on a list for an Explorer, you will get one in a few months.

To some people this type of money isn't an issue, so "paying" as an obstacle is a moot point. It's their money, $8k is a lot to you but to them it's peanuts.

Also, every market is different, some places it's actually quite difficult to find any ss Rolex, even a Milgauss. Consider yourself fortunate, and have some empathy for those that live in difficult markets, where even a mass produced Explorer is hard to get. All Rolex are mass produced, that's not relevant in the Rolex world. A Daytona is mass produced, try to find one.

I'm of the mindset that what ever people pay is their personal choice, who cares and it isn't polite to ask someone how much they paid for something unless maybe it's an intimate friend or family. There are people that have Apple watches and G-Shocks that are dumb founded that we would spend thousands of any kind on a watch period. To those that got their watch at whatever price, huge congrats.

[watchdisplay]

I wouldn’t pay the price you mentioned for the explorer 1 ref however, I do pay grey market prices and have been for the past two years or so.

I don’t understand why people get fixated on the “retail price.” Yes mass produced watches... hard to get... well that’s subjective. The market price is the market price! If I pay over retail for a Daytona and ensure that it’s slightly below market I can wear the watch as long as I’d like and most likely still make money on it.

I have yet to loose money on a stainless steel sports rolex model that I paid over retail for. It also is about when you want something. If I want to spend thousands of dollars on an item I want it yesterday not wait for someone to give me a call.


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[Where]

Originally Posted by Dyim

FOMO.

The newer generation doesn’t need, or want to wait for anything. Everything is what you want, and when you want it.

When I was young, I have to get up to the TV to change the channel.

Now, it is all on your phone with a finger swipe. Everything on demand! Right now!

In some markets, there is no other option but to pay Grey Market prices. ADs simply say they're not taking any EOI for popular steel models, unless your're willing to spend $$$ on crap you don't want.

[joli160]

Compare vintage against their original MSRP

Lots of people have enough money to buy what and when they want, a service provided by grey sellers.

[mml4]

Originally Posted by BillA

Just as the title says, looks like gray prices and resales on forum member pieces are higher. Asking over $8K for an Explorer (214270) with a msrp of $6550. Just one example. Are you really paying these numbers for a mass produced, SS watch? I just don’t think these pieces are that hard to get. If you go to a few AD’s put your name on a list for an Explorer, you will get one in a few months.

I am waiting since before last Christmas for a "Polar" Explorer2 and nothing yet.

[ZeGerman11]

To some people, the value of owning and wearing the watch right now is worth more than the extra $500-$1000 on the gray market.

An Exp listed for $8k seems high until you factor in taxes (varies by location) and likely negotiating with the dealer. In Chicago, that $6550 msrp jumps up to $7100 real quick. On top of that, I’d assume you can get $250-$500 off the Exp (all my gray purchases have been reduced by at least $500 from asking price and they’ve all been in the ballpark of the #’s we’re discussing here). Now you’re talking a difference of about ~$500.

That’s a lot more palatable to people than what initially looks like a $1,500 differential. You go into your AD and they give you the runaround, and you leave with nothing set in stone, or you pay +$500 and the watch arrives at your door in a day or two.

It’s not always attributable to FOMO or instant gratification. Sometimes people just make the best decision they can with the information available.

[RyanJ]

Originally Posted by ZeGerman11

To some people, the value of owning and wearing the watch right now is worth more than the extra $500-$1000 on the gray market.

If an Exp is listed for $8k, that seems high until you factor in taxes (varies by location) and likely negotiating with the dealer. In Chicago, that $6550 msrp jumps up to $7100 real quick. On top of that, I’d assume you can get $250-$500 off on the Exp (all my gray purchases have been reduced by at least $500 from asking price and they’ve all been in the ballpark of the #’s we’re discussing here). Now you’re talking a difference of about ~$500.

That’s a lot more palatable to people than what initially looks like a $1,500 differential. You go into your AD and they give you the runaround, and you leave with nothing set in stone, or you pay +$500 and the watch arrives at your door in a day or two.

It’s not always attributable to FOMO or instant gratification or whatever the other poster said. Sometimes people just make the best decision they can with the information available.

Umm. You are only looking at a couple of watches. The watches most people want are going for $5k-$15k over retail and not just $500 to $1000.

[ZeGerman11]

Originally Posted by RyanJ

Umm. You are only looking at a couple of watches. The watches most people want are going for $5k-$15k over retail and not just $500 to $1000.

Huh? I’m responding to the specific example cited in this thread.

That doesn’t change the spirit of my post, though. To many, $5-15k is a rounding error in relation to their net worth.

[zjd168]

why argue with the market, the price will drop if no one pays,

[Posh Gentleman]

Paying $1-$2k over retail for a Sub from a trusted seller wouldn't bother me one bit, if I really want a SS Rolex. It saves me a lot of time and headache. And trust me, I do not have the patience nor time to deal with arrogant snobbery of many sales staff at several AD's I've visited in past.

Paying $15k-20k over MSRP for a Daytona? No thanks. This is insanity. At certain point, pricing does not make sense, no matter how desirable a product may be.

Value and pricing are all relative to alternatives. $30k can get you a steel Daytona, or a White Gold Daytona. or an AP RO Chrono. Which one would you pick, if you wanted to drop $30k on a timepiece?

[JSolution]

Originally Posted by Posh Gentleman

Paying $1-$2k over retail for a Sub from a trusted seller wouldn't bother me one bit, if I really want a SS Rolex. It saves me a lot of time and headache. And trust me, I do not have the patience nor time to deal with arrogant snobbery of many sales staff at several AD's I've visited in past.

Paying $15k-20k over MSRP for a Daytona? No thanks. This is insanity. At certain point, pricing does not make sense, no matter how desirable a product may be.

Value and pricing are all relative to alternatives. $30k can get you a steel Daytona, or a White Gold Daytona. or an AP RO Chrono. Which one would you pick, if you wanted to drop $30k on a timepiece?

Agree. I have paid over for all my models and will continue to do so, time is money. And I don’t want to order something I can wear in 3-8 years.

But with examples such as ceramic Daytona, no way. Very very over priced and I would much rather drop an extra ten k or so and have it in PM.

[Harry-57]

Don't want to pay it? Don't pay it.

Everyone else will please themselves one way or the other. That's how a free market works.

[Likestheshiny]

If you go to a few AD’s put your name on a list for an Explorer, you will get one in a few months.

I've never understood how some folks on a forum for luxury watches can't understand that many people will pay more to do something faster. If you can afford the watches discussed here, you almost certainly spend money to save time in your daily life.

If I can casually afford to buy a luxury watch, why would I wait when I could... not wait? If I can't afford it, sure, then paying extra is silly. But these purchases are pocket change for some folks.

If you've ever paid an extra $2 for coffee because the expensive place is closer, then you've done exactly the same thing on your own financial scale.

[huncho]

don't know why people always bring up "mass produced". can you walk into an AD and buy the watches that have premiums? no