Poll: AD vs. Gray Market

[nylawbiz]

This is the poll that I intended to attach to the posting below.

[diablojota]

Deleted b/c poll is now present

[allanofcalifornia]

I don't understand this poll.


Allan

[davidm]

Originally Posted by allanofcalifornia

I don't understand this poll.


Allan

I think what Brian is trying to ask is, how much of a discount would an AD have to give you, to buy from him. As opposed to a grey market dealer.....................David

[allanofcalifornia]

Originally Posted by davidm

I think what Brian is trying to ask is, how much of a discount would an AD have to give you, to buy from him. As opposed to a grey market dealer.....................David

I wasn't sure if that was what he was asking or how much more you would pay to buy from an AD or what?


Allan

[gregdolley]

I would never buy from a GM dealer. I'm just too paranoid about getting a fake.

[allanofcalifornia]

Originally Posted by gregdolley

I would never buy from a GM dealer. I'm just too paranoid about getting a fake.

I have no problem buying from one of the reputable GM dealers on TRF. I would be scared buying from a stranger or off of ebay. I trust the GM dealers who sell a lot of watches on TRF. You can go to the Buyers/Sellers "Who's Who" ?!?! section on TPF and check their references.


Allan

[davidm]

Originally Posted by gregdolley

I would never buy from a GM dealer. I'm just too paranoid about getting a fake.

Greg, I've purchased most of my watches from grey market dealers, and never had an issue. Think about it this way, a GM dealer is in the market to provide a service. How long would they be in business if they dumped a fake on you? With the internet, and numerous watch fora, they would last about 2 minutes. It's accually less risky buying grey, than buying from an individual.............David

[nylawbiz]

Sorry for the typos in the poll. What I am asking is hwo much of a discount would get you to buy froma GM dealer over an AD?

[iSellJerseyShore]

Originally Posted by nylawbiz

Sorry for the typos in the poll. What I am asking is hwo much of a discount would get you to buy froma GM dealer over an AD?

LOL - I was trying to decode your text in the poll.....




-Frankie

[Mosco]

It must be that lawyer language.... I'd rather decipher ancient hieroglyphs...

And as for your question, Brian - no offense, but YAWN... This must be the 20th time it has been brought up just since December. Also, the poll itself is skewed - you should have added: "will never buy from an AD, cause if I don't want to deal with under-informed, over-pampered stuffy salespeople (and pay a hefty premium for it)".... How's that for a generalization? I think polls like this are an insult to GREAT GM dealers, such as our own Tempoking, and David W, Bernard Watches, Alan Furman, and the list goes on and on.

Just FUY, the price difference between GM and AD is usually more than 20%, (more on different brands) but, of course, you make it a point to visually skew the poll topping it off at '16% or more', kinda like buying a car advertised for 'under ten thousand' which costs $9,999. You should be in marketing.

BTW, I was looking for an IWC Big Ingenieur (newer model), found one at my AD who offered me 5% off (even though I have bought over $100,000 worth of goods from them when I was young and naive). Then, I went to my friends at ProWorth and got the SAME watch at 30% off, brand-new, with all of the correct warranty paperwork.

Brian, you know I have no problems with you at all, I love your posts (most of them anyway ), but I find this poll useless and insipid.

[padi56]

Originally Posted by davidm

Greg, I've purchased most of my watches from grey market dealers, and never had an issue. Think about it this way, a GM dealer is in the market to provide a service. How long would they be in business if they dumped a fake on you? With the internet, and numerous watch fora, they would last about 2 minutes. It's accually less risky buying grey, than buying from an individual.............David

Have to agree with you 100% and in reality the warranty is seldom used when you buy from AD.So myself have bought all but one of my watches from reliable and trusted grey dealers,and over many years never had a problem.And after warranty period, Rolex will quite happily service and take your money no matter where watch comes from, as long as its not on stolen list

[Kokyuryoku]

Originally Posted by padi56

Have to agree with you 100% and in reality the warranty is seldom used when you buy from AD.So myself have bought all but one of my watches from reliable and trusted grey dealers,and over many years never had a problem.And after warranty period, Rolex will quite happily service and take your money no matter where watch comes from, as long as its not on stolen list

This is good to know . Now just to clarify, if I buy from a grey dealer, rolex 'will' service my watch.

[Mosco]

Originally Posted by Kokyuryoku

This is good to know . Now just to clarify, if I buy from a grey dealer, rolex 'will' service my watch.

Of course!

[abr68]

Originally Posted by padi56

Have to agree with you 100% and in reality the warranty is seldom used when you buy from AD.So myself have bought all but one of my watches from reliable and trusted grey dealers,and over many years never had a problem.And after warranty period, Rolex will quite happily service and take your money no matter where watch comes from, as long as its not on stolen list

Yes trust the Sellers with reputation and many refs.
Absolutely no issue and saves some money as well.
Most of them can help you with parts and spares as well (quite helpful in the Vintage world...)

[JIM-]

I will buy from grey but never again over the web, been screwed a few times that way. I perfer to walk into the grey dealer.

[Trurolexer]

Ad

[Kokyuryoku]

Originally Posted by Mosco

Of course!

Sweet!!!

[nylawbiz]

Originally Posted by iSellJerseyShore

LOL - I was trying to decode your text in the poll.....




-Frankie

Yeah, sorry. Once a poll is posted, I do not know how to go back and edit it. I realized it was far from clear and had typos. Sorry for the confusion.

[nylawbiz]

Originally Posted by Mosco

It must be that lawyer language.... I'd rather decipher ancient hieroglyphs...

And as for your question, Brian - no offense, but YAWN... This must be the 20th time it has been brought up just since December. Also, the poll itself is skewed - you should have added: "will never buy from an AD, cause if I don't want to deal with under-informed, over-pampered stuffy salespeople (and pay a hefty premium for it)".... How's that for a generalization? I think polls like this are an insult to GREAT GM dealers, such as our own Tempoking, and David W, Bernard Watches, Alan Furman, and the list goes on and on.

Just FUY, the price difference between GM and AD is usually more than 20%, (more on different brands) but, of course, you make it a point to visually skew the poll topping it off at '16% or more', kinda like buying a car advertised for 'under ten thousand' which costs $9,999. You should be in marketing.

BTW, I was looking for an IWC Big Ingenieur (newer model), found one at my AD who offered me 5% off (even though I have bought over $100,000 worth of goods from them when I was young and naive). Then, I went to my friends at ProWorth and got the SAME watch at 30% off, brand-new, with all of the correct warranty paperwork.

Brian, you know I have no problems with you at all, I love your posts (most of them anyway ), but I find this poll useless and insipid.

I started this poll because I don't think the issue was ever quantified before. The purpose of the poll was to ascertain the "sweet spot" at which members of the forum would go gray. I just started off with the presumption that if all else is equal, there is no logical reason not to buy from an AD. I thought that only when there is a price advantage is there a reason to go GM.

I understand your point, I did not intend the poll to be skewed. I thought the break points for the choices were logical.

In all due respct to your angst against AD's, you must agree that AD"s are a necessary component of the distribution chain of Rolex watches. The only other alternatives are the watches being sold directly by Rolex owned outlets, which I don't think anyone on here would want. Surely there would no be discounting. I guess another alternative would be for Rolex wholesaling watches to anyone who made a minimum puchase. This would likely destroy the brand integrity.

There are three thing I can think of that an AD can give a purchaser that gray makret dealer cannot: 1. a manufacturer's warranty; 2. 100% assurance of authenticity and quality; and 3. a brick and mortar oulet where if there is a problem, recourse is much easier had than buying online or by mail order.

The last point I would like to reply to is that my question was intended to be posed with regard to Rolex, not other brands. I believe the rigidity of Rolex's distribution policy is higher than most other manufacturers. So, to avoid confusion, I ask that we limit the discussion in this thread to Rolex. I'm sure you agree Rolex is unqiue in the watch world, and especially in the world of watch marketing.

Cheers,
Brian

[shawn77]

I'd rather pay more for the assurance provided by an AD

[Mosco]

Originally Posted by nylawbiz

I started this poll because I don't think the issue was ever quantified before. The purpose of the poll was to ascertain the "sweet spot" at which members of the forum would go gray. I just started off with the presumption that if all else is equal, there is no logical reason not to buy from an AD. I thought that only when there is a price advantage is there a reason to go GM.

I understand your point, I did not intend the poll to be skewed. I thought the break points for the choices were logical.

In all due respct to your angst against AD's, you must agree that AD"s are a necessary component of the distribution chain of Rolex watches. The only other alternatives are the watches being sold directly by Rolex owned outlets, which I don't think anyone on here would want. Surely there would no be discounting. I guess another alternative would be for Rolex wholesaling watches to anyone who made a minimum puchase. This would likely destroy the brand integrity.

There are three thing I can think of that an AD can give a purchaser that gray makret dealer cannot: 1. a manufacturer's warranty; 2. 100% assurance of authenticity and quality; and 3. a brick and mortar oulet where if there is a problem, recourse is much easier had than buying online or by mail order.

The last point I would like to reply to is that my question was intended to be posed with regard to Rolex, not other brands. I believe the rigidity of Rolex's distribution policy is higher than most other manufacturers. So, to avoid confusion, I ask that we limit the discussion in this thread to Rolex. I'm sure you agree Rolex is unqiue in the watch world, and especially in the world of watch marketing.

Cheers,
Brian

AD's are, indeed, necessary - someone has to overpay for their initial purchase so that more savvy buyers end up with the largely discounted watch later.

All of the 3 points you raise are, unfortunately, full of holes. 1) I have bought Rolex from a TRF GM dealer where the papers were stamped by an AD, but not dated or named. There's your warranty. If a watch is a pre-owned recent model, the same warranty applies as if it came from an AD. And after the warranty period - it is fair game, all watches will be serviced the same, whether from GM or AD.

2) If I buy from Tempo, I have ZERO worries about authenticity or quality. Period. In your GM generalization, you're including an average Joe-Shmo who is selling one watch on ebay. Then, yes, you have to worry about quality and authenticity. Otherwise, if it is a reputable grey market dealer with many references and completed sales - what grounds do you have to worry that the Rolex you bought is a fake? None, zero, zip.

3) Many GM's I know do have a brick-n-mortar location, maybe not as flashy as an AD, but nonetheless it is there. And they haven't been infected with the 'fatcat syndrome', as most AD's, so they will bend over backwards to make things right.

By the way - it is YOU, the AD customer that is paying for that lavish brick-n-mortar, multiple billboards around the city, and overpaid employees. So if that makes you feel good then, by all means. Me - I like to save money. More money saved = more Rolexes, which is a good thing in my book!

[GMTcrazy]

I would NEVER buy from a Gray dealer. I would ONLY buy from an Official Rolex Jeweler. Heard/seen too many issues trying to get a watch serviced only to find out it originally had a smooth bezel and they were switched before sold by Gray dealer to make the sale. Then the person has to buy the correct bezel just to get service.

For me, piece of mind dealing with a reputable Official Rolex Jeweler is worth A LOT!!!!!

GT

[RolexCat]

For my first Rolex i bought from the AD. I wanted to have all the paperwork in my name, and their backing for any problems. Now having said that my second one may come from a GM guy who sells here. But its nice to walk into a store, and get the full service treatment. Ron

[Strut99GT]

Originally Posted by Mosco

2) If I buy from Tempo, I have ZERO worries about authenticity or quality. Period.

How does buying from someone like this work? Does he have an actual store or business, and take credit cards? Or is it sending money to a guy via paypal, etc? I've always wondered how the logistics work on something like this.

[Mosco]

Originally Posted by RolexCat

For my first Rolex i bought from the AD. I wanted to have all the paperwork in my name, and their backing for any problems. Now having said that my second one may come from a GM guy who sells here. But its nice to walk into a store, and get the full service treatment. Ron

I know PLENTY of gray market dealers who'll give you the 'Full Service Treatment', Ron!

[casadecamporolex]

I believe that in this economy, you can find many ADs who will match any GM price that you find. I would avoid chain stores and deal with owner operateds. Just be civil with the owner, pay cash and be thankful. Do not go in with a chip on your shoulder or be arrogant and/or insulting.
The current oversupply at the AD level is leading to many great deals.
For the record, I will only buy from an AD.

[SDDS]

as for me AD is a piece of mind.....

[jmjm]

I got my spanking Z series Sub Blue for $6K cash, OTD (Out the Door) Brand New In the Box with All Paperwork and Tags, plus a tune up shine on my TT DJ.

[RolexRoom]

Originally Posted by Mosco

AD's are, indeed, necessary - someone has to overpay for their initial purchase so that more savvy buyers end up with the largely discounted watch later.

All of the 3 points you raise are, unfortunately, full of holes. 1) I have bought Rolex from a TRF GM dealer where the papers were stamped by an AD, but not dated or named. There's your warranty. If a watch is a pre-owned recent model, the same warranty applies as if it came from an AD. And after the warranty period - it is fair game, all watches will be serviced the same, whether from GM or AD.

2) If I buy from Tempo, I have ZERO worries about authenticity or quality. Period. In your GM generalization, you're including an average Joe-Shmo who is selling one watch on ebay. Then, yes, you have to worry about quality and authenticity. Otherwise, if it is a reputable grey market dealer with many references and completed sales - what grounds do you have to worry that the Rolex you bought is a fake? None, zero, zip.

3) Many GM's I know do have a brick-n-mortar location, maybe not as flashy as an AD, but nonetheless it is there. And they haven't been infected with the 'fatcat syndrome', as most AD's, so they will bend over backwards to make things right.

By the way - it is YOU, the AD customer that is paying for that lavish brick-n-mortar, multiple billboards around the city, and overpaid employees. So if that makes you feel good then, by all means. Me - I like to save money. More money saved = more Rolexes, which is a good thing in my book!

Yes, Mosco your post makes a good deal more sense than the original pro AD argument.