More AD folklore.

[briansp82593]

I wanted to share with you guys some information I was told fairly recently and see if anyone else had heard the same.

Early August I was chatting with my sales guy, we get heading down the train of talking about different OP models 34/36/39. He says “we haven’t received a single OP39 this year” to which I asked, isn’t that unusual?

He shares with me that the (regional?) Rolex sales rep had told them to not expect any OP39’s in 2020.

I realize if I would have shared that information 24 days ago, it might have carried a little more weight than it does now

The second bit of information I got was more shocking. If true, of course.

We had picked up that conversation about OP39’s and new releases just recently. I was told that production of the OP39 ended almost two years ago. That all of the OP39’s that have been shipped or sold since then was just “stock” sitting around in Rolex vaults slowly trickling out.

The same information was shared to me about submariners. That production of the 116610LN/LV and other 11661X submariners supposedly ended approximately a year ago.

What does this mean? Well first and foremost. Rolex has been quietly making the 12661X submariners for a year. Putting away stock in their vaults. And that any “old” submariners that were shipped before 9/1/2020 are at least a year old.

The last piece of information I was told, Rolex has started to decrease the allocation of “slower selling watches” to heighten the demand for them. In particular the example was “the two tone Yacht-master 40 with both the black and chocolate dial will get cut back to just two of them a year” at this particular AD.

Almost seems as if Rolex is intentionally embracing our much despised wait list.



Take that information as you will, it seemed more realistic to me than some of the other “s#it my AD says” threads I have read. Figured it was worth sharing.

[Calatrava r]

This supports the fact so much of what many customers do not like is really marketing tactics by Rolex. Everyone thinks demand is through the roof which it is but would it be if supplies were what we would expect. My AD also confirmed they got just one OP39 within the last year. I also hear the new Sub will be in very limited in supply once the initial releases are sold.

[Sandpit]

The second part of the post also supports the info that during the factory shutdown period and immediately after people were still picking up new watches and ADs were still receiving stock.

It’s abundantly clear that stock supply is very well controlled. Both by Rolex themselves and the AD network.

They know what they’re doing and everyone chasing their watches is just being played like a fiddle.

[vh2k]

So refreshing to see a “My AD said...” thread with some reasonable, plausible information for a change. Thanks for sharing.

[Mendota]

That's interesting. The problem is it is turning buyers away to other brands which they may have not considered before. That's a lost sale to an AD, who is an independent business. It also leaves a bad taste in the buyer's mouth about the brand. Neither Rolex nor the AD benefit in any way from grey market sales, either. Only the flipper pockets that profit. So all around, it is creating negative juju.

ADs know this and have been loudly voicing their complaints to the mother ship. They devote substantial display case real estate to sell pieces and these display cases are sitting empty, when they could be filled with other brands.

I have no idea and do not even attempt to be an expert, but here's an interesting article. It's already a year old so who knows if it's even accurate or not. I hope it is, but that could be wishful thinking...

https://usa.watchpro.com/corders-col...e%20in%20steel.

[Sandpit]

Originally Posted by Mendota

That's interesting. The problem is it is turning buyers away to other brands which they may have not considered before. That's a lost sale to an AD, who is an independent business. It also leaves a bad taste in the buyer's mouth about the brand. Neither Rolex nor the AD benefit in any way from grey market sales, either. Only the flipper pockets that profit. So all around, it is creating negative juju.

ADs know this and have been loudly voicing their complaints to the mother ship. They devote substantial display case real estate to sell pieces and these display cases are sitting empty, when they could be filled with other brands.

I have no idea and do not even attempt to be an expert, but here's an interesting article. It's already a year old so who knows if it's even accurate or not. I hope it is, but that could be wishful thinking...

https://usa.watchpro.com/corders-col...e%20in%20steel.

People are getting fed up and are getting more vocal about it. Rolex has recently stepped up its social media posting, especially on Instagram. Read the comments and you’ll see the VAST majority of comments are about grey dealers and nonsense waitlists.

I know there’s still demand, but I’ve never ever seen the amount of bad commentary about the brand as I have now.

[ThatSubGuy]

Originally Posted by Mendota

That's interesting. The problem is it is turning buyers away to other brands which they may have not considered before. That's a lost sale to an AD, who is an independent business. It also leaves a bad taste in the buyer's mouth about the brand. Neither Rolex nor the AD benefit in any way from grey market sales, either. Only the flipper pockets that profit. So all around, it is creating negative juju.

ADs know this and have been loudly voicing their complaints to the mother ship. They devote substantial display case real estate to sell pieces and these display cases are sitting empty, when they could be filled with other brands.

I have no idea and do not even attempt to be an expert, but here's an interesting article. It's already a year old so who knows if it's even accurate or not. I hope it is, but that could be wishful thinking...

https://usa.watchpro.com/corders-col...e%20in%20steel.

By limiting supply Rolex are now not only selling more watches than ever, they are also more popular than ever.

[RoscoPico]

i think we can't blame them can we. they are a business doing what they can.
if anything they are helping fuel our desires so maybe we should thank them lol.
i mean, would the popular models really be selling so well if the shelves were stocked full of them (i don't mean short term, of course they'd all sell out in that case)
i for sure don't like the lack of availability or skyrocketing prices, but hey, se la vie.

[Lamontsanders]

Keep demand and prices high and maintain your position as a luxury (artificially) scarce item. Can't really blame them even it sucks on our end.

[GBD]

I don't blame Rolex for the existing demand or FOMO environment, that's out of their control. But I do blame them for allowing ADs to sell their stock to GM dealers, cutting out the average buyer. If Rolex wanted to crack down on this practice they certainly could.

Instituting a clear ordering process would also help. If a buyer could order a watch, then wait (even if it's a long time), at least they'd know they were getting a piece, and the process would be clear. The process now is so disjointed and opaque that it's a major turnoff for a lot of buyers.

I think we give Rolex too much credit sometimes. Sure they sell every watch, as they always have, but they're sending a clear message that the average buyer, the "celebrate an achievement" buyer, the one Rolex for a lifetime buyer, can go pound sand.

[Rado63]

Originally Posted by Mendota

That's interesting. The problem is it is turning buyers away to other brands which they may have not considered before. That's a lost sale to an AD, who is an independent business. It also leaves a bad taste in the buyer's mouth about the brand. Neither Rolex nor the AD benefit in any way from grey market sales, either. Only the flipper pockets that profit. So all around, it is creating negative juju.

ADs know this and have been loudly voicing their complaints to the mother ship. They devote substantial display case real estate to sell pieces and these display cases are sitting empty, when they could be filled with other brands.

I have no idea and do not even attempt to be an expert, but here's an interesting article. It's already a year old so who knows if it's even accurate or not. I hope it is, but that could be wishful thinking...

https://usa.watchpro.com/corders-col...e%20in%20steel.

Patek CEO has already gone on record that they won't increase production of the most wanted steel pieces. Rolex is now advertising mostly PM pieces and now you can't order PM Sports pieces, allotment only. Although, we can not see production numbers, what we can see is retailers expressing record sales of Rolex even though you don't see the watches in the case. The new 126610 LV everyday on C24 the number of watches available grows but in the case there are zero at my AD. Sadly nothing will change. Also to point out these sales don't just go to a flipper. Collectors all over the world will buy hundreds of thousands of dollars of watches each year, then sell or trade to dealers everywhere. There are also gray secondary market dealers that sell multiple brands and connect to AD's everywhere to buy stock. To Rolex the watches are out there. They sold through the AD and on to a consumer. Now the watches are on the secondary market at a premium. That is where many of us would have to go to get a watch. If you decide you are off Rolex and want another brand then go get it. You only wanted the Rolex because other people know it's a Rolex.

[MCOSUB]

Originally Posted by Mendota

Neither Rolex nor the AD benefit in any way from grey market sales, either. Only the flipper pockets that profit.
.

I thought the ADs benefited by raising their sales counts which would in turn raise their allocation numbers from Rolex?

[MannySDG]

Just to pick up on that OP39 thing. I was looking for one at the beginning of they year just before the Virus lock downs. 1 AD told me it's no problem to get, you can still special order it and it will be here in 2 months tops (this was around January). A little later down the line when I became more serious about purchasing one (around February/March) that same AD told me it was taken off the special order list. I contacted one other AD in my area and they told me they can still special order it, but I'd have to put down 50%, have to wait a year or two until it shows up, and then I do have to buy it! I had never seen an OP in real life, so I wasn't about to buy the cat in the bag and wait an undetermined amount of time while they get to play with my money. My other AD, the only one I have a purchase history with, said they could do the same thing but that it doesn't make much sense, she happened to have a DJ41 in the configuration I wanted and I am glad I purchased that instead. Apparently none of them knew that the OP39 was going to be discontinued. I wonder what would have happened had I put the money down on one....probably a refund? Or first spot on the list for an OP41?

Interesting how much or how little AD's know about what Rolex plans are, I guess kudos to Rolex for being able to keep all those secrets.

[zjd168]

Originally Posted by Mendota

That's interesting. The problem is it is turning buyers away to other brands which they may have not considered before. That's a lost sale to an AD, who is an independent business. It also leaves a bad taste in the buyer's mouth about the brand. Neither Rolex nor the AD benefit in any way from grey market sales, either. Only the flipper pockets that profit. So all around, it is creating negative juju.

ADs know this and have been loudly voicing their complaints to the mother ship. They devote substantial display case real estate to sell pieces and these display cases are sitting empty, when they could be filled with other brands.

I have no idea and do not even attempt to be an expert, but here's an interesting article. It's already a year old so who knows if it's even accurate or not. I hope it is, but that could be wishful thinking...

https://usa.watchpro.com/corders-col...e%20in%20steel.

Today there are waiting list for DD, let alone the PM GMT/Sub/Daytona. They were required good discounts to move just a few years ago. Many DJs are now becoming scarce.

Apparently both AD and Rolex all benefit from the current situation don't they?

[Rohan1806]

It makes sense doesn't it? As a brand and a manufacturer that ships out between 800k and a million pieces annually, how do I go about increasing my revenue?I either (1) increase the production of the "cheaper" but more popular stainless steel models and risk diluting the brand. This probably will require me to make additional investments to grow my infrastructure, or (2) I "gently nudge" my existing clientbase towards TT and PM models that cost 2-4 times what the SS models do, have larger margins, and doesn't require me to add new infrastructure and man power

[RoscoPico]

Originally Posted by GBD

I don't blame Rolex for the existing demand or FOMO environment, that's out of their control. But I do blame them for allowing ADs to sell their stock to GM dealers, cutting out the average buyer. If Rolex wanted to crack down on this practice they certainly could.

Instituting a clear ordering process would also help. If a buyer could order a watch, then wait (even if it's a long time), at least they'd know they were getting a piece, and the process would be clear. The process now is so disjointed and opaque that it's a major turnoff for a lot of buyers.

I think we give Rolex too much credit sometimes. Sure they sell every watch, as they always have, but they're sending a clear message that the average buyer, the "celebrate an achievement" buyer, the one Rolex for a lifetime buyer, can go pound sand.

couldn't agree more. an understandable ordering que would go a long way. the lack thereof definitely irritating to many of us, myself included

[Wahlberg]

Originally Posted by Rohan1806

It makes sense doesn't it? As a brand and a manufacturer that ships out between 800k and a million pieces annually, how do I go about increasing my revenue?I either (1) increase the production of the "cheaper" but more popular stainless steel models and risk diluting the brand. This probably will require me to make additional investments to grow my infrastructure, or (2) I "gently nudge" my existing clientbase towards TT and PM models that cost 2-4 times what the SS models do, have larger margins, and doesn't require me to add new infrastructure and man power

I doubt anything had to be changed, they already raised their prices year after the year. Demand keept going up. They never needed to make more of anything.


ADs have to be bored out of their mind by now. Lack of stock + denying people all the time gets repetitive.

[Rohan1806]

Originally Posted by Wahlberg

I doubt anything had to be changed, they already raised their prices year after the year. Demand keept going up. They never needed to make more of anything.


ADs have to be bored out of their mind by now. Lack of stock + denying people all the time gets repetitive.

That's true. Maybe it's just a question of making hay while the sun shines.

[Seddyspaghetti]

interesting. thanks for sharing.

[Avs Fan]

Originally Posted by Rohan1806

It makes sense doesn't it? As a brand and a manufacturer that ships out between 800k and a million pieces annually, how do I go about increasing my revenue?I either (1) increase the production of the "cheaper" but more popular stainless steel models and risk diluting the brand. This probably will require me to make additional investments to grow my infrastructure, or (2) I "gently nudge" my existing clientbase towards TT and PM models that cost 2-4 times what the SS models do, have larger margins, and doesn't require me to add new infrastructure and man power

Yes it does.

[joli160]

Your AD sales guy

Rolex is probably the most secretive company in the world. They never disclose anything about production data ever or about anything else for that matter.

[dukie748]

I do wonder whether stainless pieces will simply end up being 'reward trinkets' ONLY available to those who buy PM models and have high purchase histories? It really wouldn't surprise me.

Yes, professional models would still be available on the gray market - but the prices would be even crazier than they are today. And perhaps that's the way Rolex wants it.

[darius359]

Originally Posted by joli160

Rolex is probably the most secretive company in the world. They never disclose anything about production data ever or about anything else for that matter.

Totally true. On the flipside, if you work for an AD and you go to the Rolex LIC location and visit their vault, you can see for yourself the amount of stock that is available and not being shipped out. A quick conversation with one of the vault employees and you can get plenty of info on the slow release and allocation of Pro models, vs the readily available OPs for special order.

They really are masters of this game that they created. Remember in the late 90's when they reduced the number of ADs in half, globally? Production had not reduced though. With even fewer ADs since then, they're still churning out watches and selling through all their stock but they're doing it at a slow enough pace so the demand will always remain high. Not surprising for the brand that has been the number one advertiser for watches for the past 20 years...

[BaliBryan]

I don’t doubt that at all. It makes perfect sense. Sell all of what you have before announcing a new line.

[Harry-57]

In March this year my wife and I tried to get an OP39 Grape from our AD. They didn't have any 39s and they didn't know when they would next receive any. They would take her name but wouldn't promise anything.

I don't know if this tracks or not. It was certainly a surprise to be in a situation like this with the OP. Only last year they were offering us a discount on a 39 Grape they had in stock but my wife wasn't interested at the time.

They did produce a 36 Grape from the safe though. So all ended well.

[LeftHookLacey]

Originally Posted by Rohan1806

It makes sense doesn't it? As a brand and a manufacturer that ships out between 800k and a million pieces annually, how do I go about increasing my revenue?I either (1) increase the production of the "cheaper" but more popular stainless steel models and risk diluting the brand. This probably will require me to make additional investments to grow my infrastructure, or (2) I "gently nudge" my existing clientbase towards TT and PM models that cost 2-4 times what the SS models do, have larger margins, and doesn't require me to add new infrastructure and man power

Not sure this passes the logic test.

1) Luxury clothes, cars, etc don't do this and bands are not damaged. For example, if you want to buy a $20K suit, you can go buy one today.

2) Not sure how many people buy a very different products they don't want b/c they can't buy the one they want

[Journeyforce]

Thanks for the news. It is a bit sad but not a surprise.

Rolex also seems to strong arm their ADs to do this and that to keep the AD status.

The Rolex AD that sold me my Sub back in 1995, lost their AD status a few years ago. Ths Rolex AD was also a jewelry store that sold Seiko and Citizen watches. Rolex came in and demanded the store get a bigger display case for the Rolex watches and to cancel the contract with Citizen and Seiko and only sell Rolex or else they(Rolex) would strip them of the AD status.

The owner of the store told them to take the AD status and stick it up their rear end. That he was not going to spend money on a larger Rolex display area nor was he going to dump Citizen and Seiko (which were cash cows for him (especially around the holidays) ) to only get 5 Rolex watches for the whole year.

So they stripped the Rolex AD status from them. But all is well as he replaced it with Omega (who does not give a crap about having other brands there also) and they cannot keep the Omega watches in stock. it seems those that cannot get a Rolex Sub or a Daytona are buying Seamasters and Speedmasters instead. of course Seiko Turtle divers and Citizen Skyhawks are also big sellers there.

[214270Explorer]

Wow there are so many insightful views and thoughts in these posts.
It is definitely a lot to chew on and digest.

I'm going to re-read this entire post again.

[garyk]

Wow, my experience finding a bluesy in July now makes sense. The two ADs where I've done business for the past many years both said they could not get me a bluesy. That surprised me as folks on TRF said they were not that hard to get. I went grey and glad I did as I wanted the bigger case and gold lettering of the now discontinued model.

[DC116710LN]

Originally Posted by GBD

Instituting a clear ordering process would also help. If a buyer could order a watch, then wait (even if it's a long time), at least they'd know they were getting a piece, and the process would be clear. The process now is so disjointed and opaque that it's a major turnoff for a lot of buyers.

Agreed. The ambiguity and variance is what I find most off-putting.