Guilloche Day-Dates from the 1960's and 1970's

[powerfunk]

Rolex apparently made a handful of interesting guilloche dials for Day-Dates in the 1960's-1970's. I've found 7 examples so far, and all but one have Arabic days. Each example seems to be unique (although two of them are the same thing in different metals).

Does anyone know more about these, or know of any other examples? Here are pics of all the guilloche Day-Date dials I could find:

[BDII]

So cool. I’ve never seen this before

[miamiclay]

Here are a few more, IIRC the first one is known as the “Chrysler Building” DD. I assume the third is different from yours because of the French day wheel, bracelet and fluted bezel, but those could have been changed. These pics are from the Phillips “Glamorous Day-Dates” auction catalogue.

All are spectacular!

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[miamiclay]

Random guilloché thoughts -

It may be just a photographic moiré-type quirk, but on that 2nd piece (with the white gold mesh bracelet) the bracelet’s mesh looks *very* different at 6 vs. 12!

The last piece in the original post is listed as a 1977 1807, and has claw markers. I had a somewhat vague idea that claw markers were not used as late as 1977, does anyone know? The similar one I posted (with claw markers and French day wheel) was listed by Phillips as an 1803 from 1960, and the WG/claw 1804 was listed as “late 1950s.”. Incidentally, those lumes on the 1807 are perhaps the most evenly black ones I’ve seen.

Interesting that some of these patterns have been given their own names - Chrysler, hobnail, tapisserie (Tapisserie is French for tapestry - Another non-guilloché dial pattern is also known as “Tapestry.”)

I think the first, concentric pattern WG piece would benefit from a non-standard, no-cyclops crystal. It looks fine in this straight-on pic, but I’ve seen others, and from any other, different angles the crystal’s cyclops “clashes” somewhat with the guilloché. This one sold at Phillips for just over $214K last week.

[powerfunk]

Great pics, thanks Clay! Interesting that another same geometric dial exists with a French day so apparently they're not all one-of-a-kind.

Originally Posted by miamiclay

the original post is listed as a 1977 1807, and has claw markers...those lumes on the 1807 are perhaps the most evenly black ones I’ve seen.

Good point, I was just going on the year listed but the fact that it has those hands and radium lume means it can't possibly be 1977.

[HarryLime]

Some of these are surely pièces unique made at special request for Middle Eastern clients.

[L.K Johnson]

They are really true pieces of art. Unbelievable!!

[zapokee]

All beautiful.

The 1804 at the top that sold for 214,200 USD appears to have a crack in the dial above the day window... Have a look - what do we make of this?

[77T]

I have no proof but believe some of these are custom dials that were never in a catalog.

That first one just isn’t printed right. At first I thought it was an optical illusion but noted the red lines telling another story for the lower lines of text.




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[zapokee]

Originally Posted by 77T

That first one just isn’t printed right. At first I thought it was an optical illusion but noted the red lines telling another story for the lower lines of text.

Interesting. Could be parallax error/perspective, as the photo is taken slightly from the lower right. Rolex printing was also certainly more hit-and-miss back in the day, especially on these super-rare/unique dials.

[77T]

Originally Posted by zapokee

Interesting. Could be parallax error, as the photo is taken slightly from the lower right.

True the shot isn’t perfectly centered.

I also thought that. But parallax would affect the top lines of text in some manner and they are level. Maybe not in the same manner but certainly in a way where the tip lines wouldn’t be level.


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[zapokee]

Originally Posted by 77T

True the shot isn’t perfectly centered.

I also thought that. But parallax would affect the top lines of text in some manner and they are level. Maybe not in the same manner but certainly in a way where the tip lines wouldn’t be level.

Yes, you're right. I'd like to have it in my hand (which will never happen ) to make a judgment.

But even then, what's the conclusion if the writing above and below the center of the dial isn't parallel? It's such a rare piece that there isn't much to compare it with. Rolex quality control back in the day was...chilled.

[77T]

Originally Posted by zapokee

Yes, you're right. I'd like to have it in my hand (which will never happen ) to make a judgment.

But even then, what's the conclusion if the top and bottom text isn't parallel? It's such a rare piece that there isn't much to compare it with. Rolex quality control back in the day was...chilled.

Well I believe they knew how to stamp dials straight even back then.

My suggestion is this: if you find only one, then it’s either a unicorn or a custom dial.


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[chinguel]

Thanks for the post.
Very very very interesting!!

[zapokee]

Originally Posted by 77T

Well I believe they knew how to stamp dials straight even back then.

My suggestion is this: if you find only one, then it’s either a unicorn or a custom dial.

By "custom dial," do you mean it might have been made especially for the customer by Rolex upon request, or are you suggesting it might be aftermarket?

My feeling is that this one is a unicorn. I'm sure the buyer is hoping so at almost a quarter of a mil... It's a miracle they managed to print any text at all on a dial with so much up/down relief.

[77T]

When I said custom I meant a non-Rolex dial.

I think if Rolex made that dial as a one-off the lower 2 lines of text would be level with the upper 2 lines of text.

Just won’t know methinks - unless more examples pop up.


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[asb396]

I was able to buy one of these from an AD in Rome a couple of years ago - they’re more beautiful in person. The WG 1802 in the first post is Goldborger’s. Funny enough I ran into him two blocks from where I bought mine.

[asb396]

For what it’s worth RSC in NY confirmed authenticity of mine

Originally Posted by 77T

When I said custom I meant a non-Rolex dial.

I think if Rolex made that dial as a one-off the lower 2 lines of text would be level with the upper 2 lines of text.

Just won’t know methinks - unless more examples pop up.


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[harry in montreal]

The second pic with the mesh band.... that dial is a beauty

[DavidSB]

There's a fascinating YouTube video on the art of making guillioche dials. I can't add the link but search RGM's The Art of Guilloche.

[zapokee]

Originally Posted by harry in montreal

The second pic with the mesh band.... that dial is a beauty

Yes. These are all unicorns, aren't they? Never seen a Rolex mesh bracelet like that. Get your wallet out...

[77T]

Originally Posted by asb396

For what it’s worth RSC in NY confirmed authenticity of mine

Yes that’s good. I’ve seen your model in other images.

But this one I noted was very different.




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[zapokee]

Originally Posted by 77T

Yes that’s good. I’ve seen your model in other images.

But this one I noted was very different.




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As above, any thoughts on what appears to be a crack above the day window on this one? It isn't central, so it doesn't look like it's part of the design. Looks like serious dial damage...

[77T]

I thought it was a scratch.
Nothing comes to mind about it being a crack.

There are other things...




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[HarryLime]

Originally Posted by asb396

I was able to buy one of these from an AD in Rome a couple of years ago - they’re more beautiful in person. The WG 1802 in the first post is Goldborger’s. Funny enough I ran into him two blocks from where I bought mine.

Very very nice.

[miamiclay]

Originally Posted by asb396

I was able to buy one of these from an AD in Rome a couple of years ago - they’re more beautiful in person.

I don’t do much coveting, but ... yeah, beauty!

[Toronto Soup King]

I like all but the first one, that one looks like the diamonds and dial printing were added by me after a few drinks. The others are lovely

[miamiclay]

Originally Posted by DavidSB

There's a fascinating YouTube video on the art of making guillioche dials. I can't add the link but search RGM's The Art of Guilloche.

Here’s the link - https://youtu.be/9VKASuwatG0

A short video on guilloché at Vacheron Constantin - https://youtu.be/HfFvb0y85Jo

And, for a much deeper dive, “The Secrets of Horological Engine-Turning (Guillioché),” presented to the NY Horological Society - https://youtu.be/b-6B776Hw3I

[dpa94114]

I think these are amazing - but i got tired tired of googling "rolex guillioche" a few years ago.

I'm curious as to their production numbers. Somewhat brought up the idea that they might have just been done for private clients which actually makes sense (since more than a few have Arabic sub-dials).

Other watchmakers (like Glashutte) seem to have made then more frequently, wish Rolex had done the same

[miamiclay]

This “Brooklyn Bridge” guilloché dial DD is up for auction again now at Christie’s Dubai HERE, along with the sapphire- and ruby-bejeweled OQ DDs below.

All three of these were sold at the 2015 Phillips “Glamorous Day-Dates” auction.
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