Rolex 1601 Dial authentication: TSWISST dial

[kelvinccm20]

Hi everyone.

Recently I have been looking for a 1601 Datejust with a matte black dial and I am lucky enough to have a chance to purchase one. However when I am doing some research about 1601 matte black dial, I found that there is one thing has been confusing me.

Almost all of the 1601 showed "T SWISS T" at the bottom of the dial but the one that I am considering it showed "TSWISST" with no space in between. Is it genuine or not?

Please help!

[motoikkyu]

Isn't that lume dot off center?

[Dan S]

I think you should show photos of the whole watch, at least the entire dial. If this is meant to be a 1601 dial, the pie-pan step around the edge is not very noticeable.

This is not the greatest photo, but hopefully you can see what I mean.

[motoikkyu]

Dan S makes an important point, although the step of the pie-pan is sometimes more noticeable than on other examples. In Dan S's photo, notice how the lume dots are precisely in line with the markers. When this is not the case, often you are dealing with a re-painted dial.

[swish77]

Originally Posted by motoikkyu

Isn't that lume dot off center?

Yes, but not uncommon. I’d be more interested in the “Swiss” marking. Perhaps it’s a refinished dial.

[motoikkyu]

My understanding, and I could be mistaken, so no offense is intended, is that Dan S is making the point that blurring of the "step" in the edge of a pie-pan 160x dial can be the indication of repainting, while my own experience has been that the dials with lume dots that don't line up (not one, but multiple) is the sign of a repainted dial. I think both of us are gently commenting that this might be repainted. Again, I do not speak for Dan S, only respectfully submit my interpretation. I think repaint, based on my lume experience.

[swish77]

Originally Posted by motoikkyu

My understanding, and I could be mistaken, so no offense is intended, is that Dan S is making the point that blurring of the "step" in the edge of a pie-pan 160x dial can be the indication of repainting, while my own experience has been that the dials with lume dots that don't line up (not one, but multiple) is the sign of a repainted dial. I think both of us are gently commenting that this might be repainted. Again, I do not speak for Dan S, only respectfully submit my interpretation. I think repaint, based on my lume experience.

Yes, perhaps, but a slightly off-center lume dot alone is not always an indication of a redone dial.

I’ve seen plenty of original vintage Rolex dials that have slightly off-center lume dots, whether on DJs, DDs, and evening Daytonas. The lume was applied by hand back in the day and doesn’t always meet our expectations of modern precision.

[motoikkyu]

Swish77, I agree wholeheartedly with your wise words. There are many factors to assessing whether an unknown dial has been repainted, at very least it makes sense to see the whole dial. My own experience has included beautifully repainted dials with perfectly evenly spaced minute hash-marks of overall equal thickness and dimension, but with consistently slightly un-centered lume dots, which at best was an indication of poor factory work, or of a dial that has been re-lumed or had lume added, and, at worst, of a dial that was completely competently repainted, up to the point of poor lume addition. We recently lamented the scarcity of decent original dials in the 6605s, as those seemed to have faster/earlier dial degradation than some other models, including the earlier 6075s, 6105s, etc.

[zapokee]

Originally Posted by swish77

...a slightly off-center lume dot alone is not always an indication of a redone dial.

I’ve seen plenty of original vintage Rolex dials that have slightly off-center lume dots, whether on DJs, DDs, and evening Daytonas. The lume was applied by hand back in the day and doesn’t always meet our expectations of modern precision.

Agree. But the missing spaces in TSWISST and the lack of a step-down on the pie-pan dial would require some serious explanation. I've never seen either of these.

[Old Expat Beast]

Matte black, you say?