So many questions

[BMS0918]

So only posted on here once before, still reaching out to 2 ADs trying to get a black sub date, but in the meantime I had a host of questions.

1. Tudor is a subsidiary of Rolex, but from what I understand uses a Sellita movement, a slight downgrade from the ETA movement used up until 2019 or so. Isn’t this like a HUGE difference to a Rolex? Like walking into an Audi dealer, buying a VW with a Kia motor. How can Tudor be thought of in the same conversation as Rolex?

2. I saw an engine turned bezel for the first time in the metal a few weeks ago. I thought from pics I’d hate it, but I actually liked it a lot. Fluted bezel versus engine turned, please provide details on how the two are made? Is there more hand finishing involved with an engine turned bezel?

3. Rolex doesn’t do display case backs, I get it. That being said, Rolex is known for their movements; they’re high quality, reliable and durable. That being said there are other watch manufacturers that have higher hand finishing at the same price point. What hand finishing is done on a Rolex watch currently?

4. Questions on Rolex movements and complications:

Does Rolex make any hand wound movements presently, maybe the Cellini line?
Are there any Rolex watches with the dead beat seconds complications? I know they used to have a model called the tru-beat.
I love a coin edge case. Has Rolex ever produced one?
What about an enamel dial?

That’s what I have for now but sure I will have more and looking forward to some answers.

[BMS0918]

Actually just thought of another one, Explorer, Oyster Perpetual, air king. These all use the same movement, right? So why is there such a disparity in popularity and pricing? They are all the same watch with a different dial, am I wrong? Is the xcitement just the colors and designs?

[kieselguhr]

Tudor is not a subsidiary of Rolex. They are not owned by Rolex. Both companies are part of the Hans Wilsdorf foundation.

Tudor doesn’t just use Sellita movements. They have tiers of watches with a more affordable selection using the Sellita movements as ETA ebauches are no longer available nor are the parts needed to service them provided outside the Swatch group. Tudor’s more popular model range such as the Black Bay and Pelagos use Tudor’s in house movements made by their subsidiary movement producer Kenisi.

Rolex movements are Spartanly fashioned with function and robustness in mind. The simplicity is itself an attractive aspect of these movements. They are hand assembled. There are no hand finishing touches like anglage or Geneva stripes.

Rolex caliber 3235

[BMS0918]

Thanks kieselguhr. How does the Kenisi movement compare to the Rolex movement?

[kieselguhr]

Originally Posted by BMS0918

Thanks kieselguhr. How does the Kenisi movement compare to the Rolex movement?

Rolex movements are much thinner in general and incorporate design aspects unique to Rolex such as the paraflex shock absorbers (essentially a proprietary modified KIF), chronergy escapement (essentially modified Swiss lever) in newer 32xx, parachrom hairsprings, etc.

Tudor in house movements are similarly well made and incorporate components that are typically synonymous with “higher end” luxury brands including a free sprung balance, the use of a balance bridge vs. balance cock, silicon hairspring, and ball bearing rotor.

Both companies do not overly decorate their movements.

Both are accurate and reliable movements as both are chronometer grade.

[HiBoost]

Originally Posted by BMS0918

So only posted on here once before, still reaching out to 2 ADs trying to get a black sub date, but in the meantime I had a host of questions.

1. Tudor is a subsidiary of Rolex, but from what I understand uses a Sellita movement, a slight downgrade from the ETA movement used up until 2019 or so. Isn’t this like a HUGE difference to a Rolex? Like walking into an Audi dealer, buying a VW with a Kia motor. How can Tudor be thought of in the same conversation as Rolex?

I'm guessing in this analogy you weren't factoring in that Kia scores higher in dependability than Audi :)

Originally Posted by BMS0918

2. I saw an engine turned bezel for the first time in the metal a few weeks ago. I thought from pics I’d hate it, but I actually liked it a lot. Fluted bezel versus engine turned, please provide details on how the two are made? Is there more hand finishing involved with an engine turned bezel?

Both bezels were originally made that way (i.e. not smooth) to assist with screwing down the bezel to achieve watertight requirements. The fluted bezel has always been more of a luxury look, thus polished, and the engine turned bezel is no longer made due likely to a lack of popularity.

Originally Posted by BMS0918

3. Rolex doesn’t do display case backs, I get it. That being said, Rolex is known for their movements; they’re high quality, reliable and durable. That being said there are other watch manufacturers that have higher hand finishing at the same price point. What hand finishing is done on a Rolex watch currently?

Not sure we know for certain, but I have never seen proof there is any "hand" finishing on any of them. That said, the new 32xx movements do look nicely finished and a bit more ornate than the previous generation. I don't believe Rolex is trying to hide the movement, I just think having a solid metal screw back is more inline with a "tool" watch and one less place to worry about water ingress.

Originally Posted by BMS0918

4. Questions on Rolex movements and complications:

Does Rolex make any hand wound movements presently, maybe the Cellini line?
Are there any Rolex watches with the dead beat seconds complications? I know they used to have a model called the tru-beat.
I love a coin edge case. Has Rolex ever produced one?
What about an enamel dial?

That’s what I have for now but sure I will have more and looking forward to some answers.

Not aware of any current manual wind Rolexes. They have a blurb on their website that says "perpetual, it's at the heart of everything we do". The coin edge effect is on the bezel and several Cellini models have this. Enamel dials are relatively more fragile which is probably why Rolex only used them for a brief time many years ago. The Cellini moonphase does have an enameled subdial (the blue part).

[BMS0918]

Thank you both, still interested in “how” the engine turned bezel is made. Is it by an individual person actually etching the design into the bezel using a lathe by hand? What is done by hand? Polishing the hands? Painting anything on dials?

[HiBoost]

All the latest info I have seen suggests that Rolex watches are hand assembled collections of machine made parts. Some tiny polishing operations may still be done by hand but I've not heard any reports of hand engraving, hand lettering, etc. The machine turned bezel is no longer in production, but even when it was I'm guessing it was machine made. Isn't that what the name implies to you?

Sent from my SM-G960U1 using Tapatalk

[Stan Cooper]

There is a thread by TRF moderator "Tools" (Larry) in the Rolex Reference Library forum about display casebacks for Rolex cases from Thomas Preik in Germany. After reading the thread, I ordered one and had it installed and pressure tested by a local watchmaker. The quality is on a par with Rolex, and I am thrilled with it.

Thread link: https://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=154091

Rolex movements lack ornamental frills, but they are tough, accurate, honest and reliable; I find that refreshing. In their practical simplicity they are beautiful.

Here's the Thomas Preik display caseback on my 16710 GMT II.

[Jack T]

Wish I had something constructive to offer, but I feel this is the kind of post that can result in useful information and thoughtful discussion, and is very helpful to me. Thanks to the OP for posting.

[J_1964]

Giving a compliment to the OP for posting IS Constructive. It may prompt others to post questions that result in More of These Informative Responses.

[brandrea]

Originally Posted by Stan Cooper

There is a thread by TRF moderator "Tools" (Larry) in the Rolex Reference Library forum about display casebacks for Rolex cases from Thomas Preik in Germany. After reading the thread, I ordered one and had it installed and pressure tested by a local watchmaker. The quality is on a par with Rolex, and I am thrilled with it.

Thread link: https://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=154091

Rolex movements lack ornamental frills, but they are tough, accurate, honest and reliable; I find that refreshing. In their practical simplicity they are beautiful.

Here's the Thomas Preik display caseback on my 16710 GMT II.

Looking good Stan I remember that post by Larry as well

[BMS0918]

Stan Cooper and HiBoost:

Stan, That’s pretty awesome. That’s also what I like about the Rolex I have. I’ve had a DateJust my wife bought me when we got engaged and I’ll leave it on my winder when not in use. When I go to pick it up several days or a week later it hasn’t lost a minute. My Panerai, even though I love it, the same can’t be said. My point about the hand finishing and engine turned bezel is that even though machines are used it is still hand operated. The perlage you see, is it done manually by someone operating a machine by hand or is it some machine operated by a computer. It’s these small details I want to know more about. You hear stories from every AD that xyz hours goes into making each Rolex. Given that there is less finishing than say a Royal Oak or another high end watch, maybe even Geneva striping on a Speedy, where is it, where are the hours for these high end Rolex craftsmen going into?

I appreciate all the replies. I really love hearing everyone’s responses, it’s great!

[Stan Cooper]

Regarding engine turned bezels, the best explanation I've seen is a post on WatchUSeek that describes the process. It would be nice to see a picture of the machine that rotates the bezel in precise increments while engraving the radial grooves to precise depths.

https://www.watchuseek.com/threads/e...-bezel.238765/

[Orangeface]

Once put a display back on a late M-series 16710 just to look at the 3186 number on the movement cuz it was unusual. Other than that, not much to see on the inside of a Rolex. Just a workhorse at work.