Payment Preference W/ Grey Dealers

[Nicholas D.]

For those that have purchased watches from grey market dealers, how do you typically prefer to pay?

In my mind, no matter how much research one does, there will always been an inherent gamble with dealing with the grey market. It is what it is. Do your homework and hope for the best. That being said, as a buyer, I prefer to maximize my purchase security by utilizing a credit card that has trusted service measures.

This question was motivated by my consideration of making a purchase from one of the trusted sellers on this forum. I noticed that most only initially accept a bank wire for payment. I have prior experience working at banks, dealing directly with domestic and international wires, and know firsthand how little recourse there is for a buyer if things run afoul.

Maybe there is an angle that I’m not seeing to this?

Just curious to hear about people’s experiences and thoughts on the matter.

[Driver8]

Personally, and I've only bought from greys a couple of times, I've always chosen 'bricks and mortar' outfits even if the purchase itself was done online. The greys I used never had any issue with card payments which, as you say, gives you far more protection than wire transfers (which have essentially none). I think if you're a business, then accepting card payment is an absolute must.

Personally I steer clear of pop-up greys who sell from their bedrooms.

[BGTHEMOGUL]

Dealers don't want to accept credit cards because of the merchant fees which would add up quickly at these price points. A wire is as good as cash to them.

[jacksprat]

A gray will usually accept credit card payments if you cover the credit card processing fee for them. Similar to a "paypal payments add 3%" statement you commonly see in the 'for sale section' of other enthusiast forums.

[SDREW22]

Brick and mortar locations are the only Grey dealers I have worked with so far. I have had no issues. I have used a mix of Paypal and Wire transfer.

[Marcjvr]

A buddy of mine got screwed by PayPal after he sold a watch on eBay. The buyer told PayPal the package did not include the watch and PayPal immediately refunded the buyer’s credit card.

So there is as much risk for the seller as well in accepting PayPal or a credit card.

I used a trusted grey in here, OCWatchGuy, and Patrick was amazing to deal with. I had 0 issues wiring money to him and a day later I received my watch.

[1William]

When you talk about Grey Market that covers a lot of ground. The Trusted Sellers on TRF are another matter as you can come here and ask for a reference and get it from verified, long term members. I have bought on may platforms, ebay/Chrono24/websites maintained by sellers, etc. Not all sellers are created equal and all I typically need to read is a few bad reviews and they are done forever. The other part is that most buyers are so focused on price that they miss a lot of details about the watch and the seller. I typically wire funds to a Trusted Seller, DavidSW most of the time, when I do not have a trade. Never one issue and David will promptly send you any money he owes you by whatever platform you choose. Until you have the game down a bit and have done some transactions I would stick to Trusted Sellers here on TRF or AD's. Just my thoughts.

[Nicholas D.]

Update to my initial post: I was willing to pay the attributed CC / PayPal fees and it still wasn’t a consideration for the seller.

And I agree with the brick-and-mortar comments. All of my past grey market purchases only occurred after I physically surveyed the watch in person.

People write glowing reviews about the big sellers on this forum, so I started to consider the option, but I have to admit, from a risk assessment perspective, hmm.

[joli160]

Trusted sellers have to deal with scam attempts via card and paypal everyday. On top of that it costs them a hefty fee.

I have no problem paying in advance via wire.

[Chewbacca]

First, let’s accept that TS is a misnomer. The forum even stays away from the term. Yes, some sellers are better than others with more to lose, but that’s still no 100pct guarantee.

So offer to pay the 1.5 - 3% interchange fees.

It’s also worth the cc points, added insurance, and general transparency with the transaction.

[Nicholas D.]

Chewbacca: well-stated, and my sentiments exactly.

When the seller didn’t allow for a CC payment, even if I covered all inherent fees, I nixed the consideration. It just reached a point where it became dodgy and wasn’t worth it.

Very interesting how coveted this seller still is on this forum. But, that wasn’t the purpose of my post. I’m not looking to blow up anyone’s spot.

I appreciate all of the responses. Always a learning curve.

[Marcjvr]

Originally Posted by Nicholas D.

Chewbacca: well-stated, and my sentiments exactly.

When the seller didn’t allow for a CC payment, even if I covered all inherent fees, I nixed the consideration. It just reached a point where it became dodgy and wasn’t worth it.

Very interesting how coveted this seller still is on this forum. But, that wasn’t the purpose of my post. I’m not looking to blow up anyone’s spot.

I appreciate all of the responses. Always a learning curve.

It’s quite possible the seller came to the same conclusion about you.

I sold an Omega Seamaster once and I tell you, never again!!! The scammers were one thing but the amount of potential buyers out there who had outrageous and unreasonable demands were a completely different story…

Trust goes both ways. The good news is both parties can walk away. Plenty of other sellers and buyers out there on both sides.

Good luck.

[JoseR]

Both grey I've used are 'bricks and mortar'. One I had to pay $500 to order the watch and once it arrive the balanced was in a personal check. Once the check cleared the watch was shipped. The other I paid in full with my CC. No problems either way, but like mentioned above look for established 'bricks and mortar' to be on the safe side.

[Polarexplorerii]

I bought this Rolex last yr from Federico over at Delray watch and I was a little nervous sending a first time wire. Federico made the transaction as smooth as possible and I had my watch in a few days and still love it.



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[GONZO2LR]

if i dont have the watch or item on front of me before i buy, i dont buy. The seller is saying the same thing...trust me, pay me first, then they will ship! They want me to trust them but they dont trust me. I just find it hard to give them my money...and i dont mean $200.00...or $500.00...we are talking 7K...to 15K...ohhh nooo....no way...how about i pay you half and you send it, then i will forward the rest......ohh no...they will say no!

Merchant stores pay the 3 percent, when we purchase their goods. It's the price you pay for good business. I asked my CC company. Becasue if their is a problem, your covered. Those that want you to pay the 3 percent, are too cheap, they want total profit. If their is a problem, it's your problem, not thiers because they are cheap sellers...they want 100 percnet profit off you! and if there is an issue...you are the one that has to pay, not them....so i will never ever buy from them no matter what kind of deal they will give me, i even asked for the 3 percent discount to cover my 3 percent!! they said no...i have more to say, but im sure i pissed sellers off....

[Tools]

The Grey Market and the Secondary (used) Market are not the same thing.

Always research whomever you choose to do business with. Many Internet sellers don't even have a business license, they are just flipping watches for profit. The true Grey Market are legitimate businesses and take most forms of payment.

[JParm]

Wire, always - in and out.

[beshannon]

I would use wire transfer as that is how I have always been paid

[zengineer]

I could get in trouble real fast if they started readily taking credit cards. I am not really in the market with prices as stupid as they are currently (yes I know they may just keep climbing but I'm buying a watch, not bitcoin) but if I was the policy helps me stay hinest with my "buy with extra free cash only" policy.

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[wcl884]

Even with the TPG "pause" I would still use the old adage "buy the buyer / seller"

While I hate the higher prices, I do trust many of the Greys on the forum - hard to believe I would wire even $5K or higher to unknown strangers.

[Atone]

I use and take wires for 99.9999% of my watches. Never had a problem with a little bit of due diligence.

[HHIslander]

I don't buy from anyone who doesn't have a website that can process a card. For both peace of mind and points. I've only had one potential seller refuse to honor a CC and I probably dodged a bullet by refusing to wire.

[Tri-Tip]

I bought my Explorer II from a grey dealer. Wired the money at noon and met him to pick up the watch that evening. It was a long and nerve wracking 6 hours hoping I didn't get screwed, and all went perfectly well!

[Knappo 1307]

Originally Posted by Nicholas D.

Chewbacca: well-stated, and my sentiments exactly.

When the seller didn’t allow for a CC payment, even if I covered all inherent fees, I nixed the consideration. It just reached a point where it became dodgy and wasn’t worth it.

Very interesting how coveted this seller still is on this forum. But, that wasn’t the purpose of my post. I’m not looking to blow up anyone’s spot.

I appreciate all of the responses. Always a learning curve.

It's as simple as you have to cover your bases, and they have to cover theirs. You didn't feel comfortable and neither did they, so you both move on. It's very interesting how you would think the seller is not coveted, just for not allowing a CC payment? Obviously, many have bought from this person hence the good reviews, your situation didn't work, move along and find one that does....

[shaunylw]

I’ve bought 3 watches from Takuyah, and a handful from others, always wire. I have more confidence in Thanh than i do paying with a debit card at many places. The larger greys are not going to risk screwing someone out of 15-20k when they are doing hundreds of sales a year.


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[zaydans]

I’ve purchased from DavidSW, SohAIS, and Addy, all with credit cards with the fees at my end. None of them have issue with this. As far as I’m concerned anyone that doesn’t accept cc, or pp when I’m taking on the fees isn’t getting my business…..simple.

[hundreds]

Crypto, specifically USDT or USDC.

[KMalone]

I'm always confused by a 'business' that doesn't take a CC or PayPal and cites the merchant fees.

When I had a business, the merchant fees were figured into the overall cost of the item . . . even when it was paid for by cash.

ANY business today needs to accept whatever form of payments are available to their customers.

[Oyster Perp]

Here in the UK its illegal to charge for accepting a Credit Card payment, in days gone by it was usually 3%. The Credit Card will cover a fraudulent transaction

[Boopie]

I just bought a vintage (1970s) watch from a private seller through Chrono 24. I messaged the seller enough that I was satisfied enough to take a risk, I got some helpful feedback from members here on TRF’s vintage Rolex discussion forum, and I figured there was not a huge risk of fraud on a relatively inexpensive ladies’ Tudor watch, so I used a credit card. This wasn’t a vintage 1675, or a Daytona with a “too good to be true” price.

Likewise, I purchased a used DJ from HQ Milton earlier this year and used a wire transfer. The price point was where I felt comfortable doing that. It was a pretty basic 16200, so, again, not a (relatively) expensive or rare model. I was very pleased with the transaction and wouldn’t hesitate to do that again.

When I bought my first Rolex over 20 years ago, my brand-new Yachtmaster, I went to what I presume was a “grey dealer,” a brick and mortar watch shop in downtown Beverly Hills, and paid all cash (which got me a 20% discount). I was a little nervous but it all looked good, and checked out.

With the prices and rarity of some of the watches that TRF members have purchased, I totally agree that you have to “buy the seller.” A friend with a very high end, desirable watch collection has been using his same “watch guy” private dealer for over 30 years.