Gray market suspicions confirmed

[JDsnewwatch]

I have been chasing after a particular watch for quite some time. I made a deal with a gray market seller in New York. I called in today to see how things were going with the purchase and I spoke to the manager. She told me that she was working on this purchase and she needed to get in touch with the AD.

You read that correctly. This gray market seller is getting my new watch from an AD. It's not even a secret, it's right out there. In this case, the price is better than retail. But, make no mistake, the ADs are on a first-name basis with the secondary market sellers.

There is no shortage, there are watches walking out the door to the highest payers. and $8,000 watch that commands $14,000 on the gray market is likely going for 9K behind the scenes. Everyone wins..

[subtona]

Doesn’t feel like the consumer is a winner?

[dannyp]

Originally Posted by subtona

Doesn’t feel like the consumer is a winner?

This seems more like “old school” AD-secondary market relationship: Grey dealer buys less desirable watches in bulk and move them somewhere between their cost and retail.

[JDsnewwatch]

There is a silver lining. On watches that are not in high demand, there is great value in this relationship. I bought a watch that retails for over 12K, and I paid about 8K. New, in box, with stickers, warranty card, etc.

[Seddyspaghetti]

Originally Posted by JDsnewwatch

There is a silver lining. On watches that are not in high demand, there is great value in this relationship. I bought a watch that retails for over 12K, and I paid about 8K. New, in box, with stickers, warranty card, etc.

Which watch is this?

[Locust]

Lol. Get over it. Of course ADs deal with the greys.

[JDsnewwatch]

It's an Omega Globemaster Annual Calendar, steel and with sedna gold fluted bezel - slate colored dial,

[Bizcut1]

"I'm shocked...shocked to find that gambling is going on in here!"

[Seddyspaghetti]

Originally Posted by JDsnewwatch

It's an Omega Globemaster Annual Calendar, steel and with sedna gold fluted bezel - slate colored dial,

Nice.

[JRell]

Originally Posted by Locust

Lol. Get over it. Of course ADs deal with the greys.

Shady ones do, or sales associates without the owner knowing, agree.

[Yellow5]

Here is the deal. There are sought after models that are worth more than retail, and many that are worth less. Rolex doesn’t take orders from the ADs, so their hands get tied with inventory that can’t move. The higher the secondary prices of the sought after models, the more overpriced models they can force in a bulk buy.

When looking at a potential purchaser of a sought after model, the question is “Will this sale be more profitable than bundling with a grey dealer.” Not all ADs work this way, and there are secret shops being done that help push things to help the regular consumer, but unless you have a long history with them, or are a person who also likes jewelry, getting a truly hot model isn’t going to happen.

I sincerely think this cooperation between AD and Grey and over hyping what are mostly not rare models is not sustainable long term. The economy dictates a lot, and the next sustained recession will likely end the party.

[sportsfan0704]

Originally Posted by JDsnewwatch

It's an Omega Globemaster Annual Calendar, steel and with sedna gold fluted bezel - slate colored dial,

I don’t think it’s fair to extrapolate based on this. I imagine rolexes rules, whether followed carefully or not, are more serious than omega’s. I like omega but I think it’s a lot easier for the AD to turn those around to the grey dealer as a scratch my back I’ll scratch yours than with the rolexes that 1) every consumer wants and 2) every grey dealer wants.

[ks58]

Wrong spot for an Omega post. This shouldn't be in the Rolex forum.

[fskywalker]

Unfortunately true


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[JDsnewwatch]

Originally Posted by ks58

Wrong spot for an Omega post. This shouldn't be in the Rolex forum.

LOL.. OK, its for a toooduur.. happy now?

[JDsnewwatch]

Originally Posted by sportsfan0704

I don’t think it’s fair to extrapolate based on this. I imagine rolexes rules, whether followed carefully or not, are more serious than omega’s. I like omega but I think it’s a lot easier for the AD to turn those around to the grey dealer as a scratch my back I’ll scratch yours than with the rolexes that 1) every consumer wants and 2) every grey dealer wants.

This dealer sells lots and lots of Rolexes, new, in the box, with papers, ALL stickers etc. Any guesses how he got them? (hint: he isn't on a waiting list)

[Fleetlord]

Originally Posted by sportsfan0704

I don’t think it’s fair to extrapolate based on this. I imagine rolexes rules, whether followed carefully or not, are more serious than omega’s. I like omega but I think it’s a lot easier for the AD to turn those around to the grey dealer as a scratch my back I’ll scratch yours than with the rolexes that 1) every consumer wants and 2) every grey dealer wants.

Also this reference would “have” to be sourced directly from an AD because most greys wouldn’t stock this specific Omega reference at all. They wouldn’t take it in trade or buy it outright from a client. Too slow of a seller.

So, they have an Omega dealer who gladly sold it to the grey @ 40% off, who in turn sold it to you @ 25% off…or something like that.

This is very,very common with Omega. Only way to sell them.

Does this happen with Rolex too? Sure. But less than it did 7yrs ago. There is more backpack dealer flipping than AD dumping….except for the Asian markets where the AD serve as co distributors for the grey dealers to get the irksome SS references out of the way.

[Chester01]

Originally Posted by JDsnewwatch

I have been chasing after a particular watch for quite some time. I made a deal with a gray market seller in New York. I called in today to see how things were going with the purchase and I spoke to the manager. She told me that she was working on this purchase and she needed to get in touch with the AD.

You read that correctly. This gray market seller is getting my new watch from an AD. It's not even a secret, it's right out there. In this case, the price is better than retail. But, make no mistake, the ADs are on a first-name basis with the secondary market sellers.

There is no shortage, there are watches walking out the door to the highest payers. and $8,000 watch that commands $14,000 on the gray market is likely going for 9K behind the scenes. Everyone wins..

I have been saying this for a couple years now, which has stirred some strong feelings among many folks here. Elementary logic and reason of course wins, because all new Rolex watches come from Rolex to the AD period, game, set, and match. Thus all rolex at the gray comes from the AD (unless preowned). Its basic, but you would be surprised the mental gymnastics that folks here go through to argue this.

[sportsfan0704]

Originally Posted by Chester01

I have been saying this for a couple years now, which has stirred some strong feelings among many folks here. Elementary logic and reason of course wins, because all new Rolex watches come from Rolex to the AD period, game, set, and match. Thus all rolex at the gray comes from the AD (unless preowned). Its basic, but you would be surprised the mental gymnastics that folks here go through to argue this.

This is just false. Many people put their names down for watches, the call comes in, they take the watch and sell it to the secondary seller at a profit. They keep the difference and buy what they like. To say it’s 100% your way or some other way is disingenuous.

[teck21]

Originally Posted by Yellow5

Here is the deal. There are sought after models that are worth more than retail, and many that are worth less. Rolex doesn’t take orders from the ADs, so their hands get tied with inventory that can’t move. The higher the secondary prices of the sought after models, the more overpriced models they can force in a bulk buy.

When looking at a potential purchaser of a sought after model, the question is “Will this sale be more profitable than bundling with a grey dealer.” Not all ADs work this way, and there are secret shops being done that help push things to help the regular consumer, but unless you have a long history with them, or are a person who also likes jewelry, getting a truly hot model isn’t going to happen.

I sincerely think this cooperation between AD and Grey and over hyping what are mostly not rare models is not sustainable long term. The economy dictates a lot, and the next sustained recession will likely end the party.

As Fleetlord has put it, this practice is largely gone from Rolex dealerships.

They no longer need greys to clear unwanted references in bulk to make room for new stock.

It’s like how Rolex no longer needs mom and pop stores all over its traditional markets.

Few will put their dealerships in jeopardy just for the convenience anymore.

After all, the inconvenience of choosing which customers to sell to is a good one, and it is increasingly no longer just ‘popular’ models.


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[ThatOtherGuy7]

I would venture that any set with the green sticker still in tact and/or warranty card not filled out (or that the bracelet is unsized) is straight from AD to grey. As far as I know ADs tend to keep the green stickers. With that said though, it is what it is. Nothing we say or do will change anything so just gotta play the game. It’s a PITA I know.

[samuel019]

News flash, Rolex sends all there watches to A D’s

So when a secondary seller/Grey market has a watch there’s a pretty good chance it came from an A D

All I know is I’ve been on TRF since 2012 and seeing fully stickered Rolex’s at a discount was like the sun coming up.

The only thing that has changed is no more discounts and now every model gets bought. DJ’s, both Explorers, PM models etc etc were slow sellers at that time.

Now everything gets purchased thus no A D stock and higher demand and most importantly no discounts because now every single Rolex is a “hot model”

Is what it is. I was buying from them then as well as my A D and still doing both now. Maybe things go back to that maybe they don’t.

Just remember this to everyone complaining about pricing, when you pay waaaaaaay less you get waaaaaaaay less when you sell or trade.

[shaunylw]

I have a few dealers i would use for Omega, panerai and IWC.I thought it was pretty well known that they have a standing discount? I got 30% off the last IWC Portfino 8 day.


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[shaunylw]

Originally Posted by Chester01

I have been saying this for a couple years now, which has stirred some strong feelings among many folks here. Elementary logic and reason of course wins, because all new Rolex watches come from Rolex to the AD period, game, set, and match. Thus all rolex at the gray comes from the AD (unless preowned). Its basic, but you would be surprised the mental gymnastics that folks here go through to argue this.

If you mean that the only way grey dealers get stickered and unworn watches is directly from an AD as a buyer, no. That’s incorrect.

There are a high number of grey watches, brand new and unworn that are coming from folks buying at ADs and flipping them. How do i know? Because i have a buddy that does it and we use his AD to get whatever we want. At least 6-8 watches this year were sold to a dealer we work with. All stickered and unworn. They are not getting all of their watches from the AD.


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[JR16]

So OP bought a less-desired omega from a pre-owned dealer at a discount ? That’s what this thread comes down to? It’s been this way w Omega for as long as I can remember…


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[JRell]

Originally Posted by shaunylw

If you mean that the only way grey dealers get stickered and unworn watches is directly from an AD as a buyer, no. That’s incorrect.

There are a high number of grey watches, brand new and unworn that are coming from folks buying at ADs and flipping them. How do i know? Because i have a buddy that does it and we use his AD to get whatever we want. At least 6-8 watches this year were sold to a dealer we work with. All stickered and unworn. They are not getting all of their watches from the AD.


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Thank you - didn’t have the energy to comment the same thing.

[Fleetlord]

Originally Posted by teck21

As Fleetlord has put it, this practice is largely gone from Rolex dealerships.

They no longer need greys to clear unwanted references in bulk to make room for new stock.

It’s like how Rolex no longer needs mom and pop stores all over its traditional markets.

Few will put their dealerships in jeopardy just for the convenience anymore.

After all, the inconvenience of choosing which customers to sell to is a good one, and it is increasingly no longer just ‘popular’ models.


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Best possible response to this thread!

[whiskyrolex]

You probably should have disclosed that this was for an Omega and not a Rolex in the original post.

[novae500]

I was in Naples Fl in 2-2021 and the SA said he sold a Hulk for $18,000 in the morning. Knowing that they go for $10k. Obvious the SA made some money?? Wrote the purchase up at MSRP and rest in cash?? I’m his pocket


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[Polar Bear]

Why are you asking a Grey Dealer to source you a watch?
Why not go to an Omega AD yourself?
Its not a hot model, so i imagine a few phone calls would turn one up

If your Grey Dealer is quoting you less than retail on a BNIB model, why are you complaining?