Gronefeld no longer taking orders

[Verbow]

Dear watch aficionados,

When we established Grönefeld in 2008, our objective was clear, we wanted to make fine watches, free of compromise, made for connoisseurs. Whilst we have always been ambitious, we could have never envisaged the success we have since gone on to enjoy. Over the years, we have received significant praise from the press along with numerous awards.

However, we now find ourselves in the regrettable situation where we can no longer accept new orders until further notice. The confidence shown by our customers and retailers has been wonderful, albeit a tad overwhelming. Aware of the increasing demand for our products, we recently moved to new, larger premises and recruited five new watchmakers. However, the necessary skills we require are not simply available off-the shelf, hence we cannot easily recruit additional personnel. Indeed, we need time to train new staff and instil in them our company’s values. At no stage will we ever countenance compromising our standards.

As you may be aware, the strength of Grönefeld is that we build complicated and ingenious mechanisms, characteristics which will remain at the heart of what we do. A perfect illustration of this philosophy is the 1941 Remontoire, a watch endowed with a constant force mechanism. This limited edition model, restricted to just 188 pieces, sold out just over a year ago. Since then, we have only been able to accept orders for the 1941 Principia, our automatic timepiece. However, once again, the popularity of this model has exceeded our expectations, culminating in a lengthy lead time, currently in excess of three years.

Furthermore, we are mindful that no company can standstill. Since 2015, we have been working on a new, exciting timepiece and plan to unveil it later this year. In order to fulfil orders over the coming years, we have set aside capacity for this new creation. We invite you to keep abreast of developments by subscribing to our newsletter.

Clearly, we are conscious that some of you may be disappointed that you are unable to place an order at this juncture. Nevertheless, we hope to remedy this situation in due course. In the interim period, we would urge you to consider a timepiece from an alternative independent watchmaker and discover a world where creativity and craftsmanship often co-exist.

Lastly, we would like to thank you for your support, rest assured it is much appreciated.

Best regards

Bart & Tim Grönefeld

[FrugalGreubel]

I’m really happy for them as a company but as someone who was saving up for a future Grönefeld this concerns me. I worry availability will be so scarce that I won’t be able to obtain one of their watches at retail.

[dchang81]

whenever they take that long a wait i imagine people get tired waiting and give up their allocation

[DGB]

Good for them,

Yet another brand to put on the shelf of the unobtainable watches.

Place your bets gents, how much will be the price of the 1941 Remontoire on the grey market?


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[subtona]

Congratulations.

Like everything else I’m sure folks will be able to acquire on the secondary market.

[KKO]

Happy for Bart and Tim. They are some of the friendliest guys in the business.

Can wait to see what they have in store.

[WatchEater666]

Good for them, well earned. They offer a much better product than the big three do at the same price point.

[kunlun]

Bart and Tim are nice guys. They are doing the right thing and we see this with a bunch of independents.

[brandrea]

Originally Posted by subtona

Congratulations.

Like everything else I’m sure folks will be able to acquire on the secondary market.

[Wahlberg]

Used prices x2.

Looking forward to their future. Still impressive what they are doing and I wish them well.

[ap1]

They sure make beautiful watches, nice to see that being recognized

[_speedmaster_]

Bart and Tim are great, down to earth people; I'm very happy for their success and well-deserved recognition. They are still budgeting time for their upcoming new release, so hold off on paying exorbitant prices in the grey market.

Side note, I love that they directed people to explore and purchase watches from other independents. Class acts.

[watchucallit]

Some of their orders may be to dealers -- which means there could be some pieces available to all.

[FrugalGreubel]

Originally Posted by watchucallit

Some of their orders may be to dealers -- which means there could be some pieces available to all.

That’s something that I didn’t consider. I hope you’re right.

[eiesh]

Originally Posted by watchucallit

Some of their orders may be to dealers -- which means there could be some pieces available to all.

+1

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[GreenLantern]

You know, it's unfortunate... We're all talking about how it's a great thing for them and we're congratulating them, and I'm really, really happy that they're finally popular enough.

But, from a business standpoint, any time you have to stop taking orders, it's terrible. Absolutely terrible.

And the unfortunate thing is that you end up this way because it's too hard to hire and train watchmakers, unless you are gradually growing your team while you're growing your customer base.

All this means lower cash flow, lower hoarding of cash (for the times when people aren't treating watches like crypto investments), and lots of money left on the table.

Still, I'm super happy for them.

[watchucallit]

So is it better to be upfront and say -- cannot take anymore orders for the time being or function like Patek and Rolex and others-- continue to take the orders ... that will never be filled.

[GreenLantern]

Originally Posted by watchucallit

So is it better to be upfront and say -- cannot take anymore orders for the time being or function like Patek and Rolex and others-- continue to take the orders ... that will never be filled.

I disagree.

These are watches. Not things you need next month.

I've waited 6 years for a watch (and several others 3-5 years). It was worth the wait.

[flanzig]

Originally Posted by _speedmaster_

Bart and Tim are great, down to earth people; I'm very happy for their success and well-deserved recognition. They are still budgeting time for their upcoming new release, so hold off on paying exorbitant prices in the grey market.

Side note, I love that they directed people to explore and purchase watches from other independents. Class acts.

Agree 100%. Amazing humans and very approachable. I’m super happy for their success and growth.

[mrarchiegoodwin]

I enjoyed the few hours of anticipation between the time I placed an order on the Gronefeld website (and instantly received confirmation via email) until the next morning when I received the announcement from the brothers that has been posted at the start of this thread. I am considering placing another order on the website so that I can dream about having a fine watch before receiving that same announcement the next morning. If I do it once a week I might never have to buy another watch again.

[AK797]

Shame but inevitable as forums like this, who champion alot of these once outsider artisanal brands, get more interest from the gen pop... we should all get a commission/discount for the free advertising we give these guys.

[watchucallit]

I have two of their pieces... The bespoke remontoire and a parallax tourbillon. I purchased the first directly from the brothers and the second I had inquired but those were sold out but found one at one of their USA dealers.

[thekman]

Just received my Principia this week. Such a great piece and company!

[dchang81]

which one you get? curious too if they hit triple digits yet

[flanzig]

Originally Posted by dchang81

which one you get? curious too if they hit triple digits yet

When I put down my deposit earlier this year I wasn’t given the option to choose a two digit edition number.

[dchang81]

Originally Posted by flanzig

When I put down my deposit earlier this year I wasn’t given the option to choose a two digit edition number.

you could choose??

[sgrossma]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern

You know, it's unfortunate... We're all talking about how it's a great thing for them and we're congratulating them, and I'm really, really happy that they're finally popular enough.

But, from a business standpoint, any time you have to stop taking orders, it's terrible. Absolutely terrible.

And the unfortunate thing is that you end up this way because it's too hard to hire and train watchmakers, unless you are gradually growing your team while you're growing your customer base.

All this means lower cash flow, lower hoarding of cash (for the times when people aren't treating watches like crypto investments), and lots of money left on the table.

Still, I'm super happy for them.

Luxury goods don’t operate like normal goods. As we know, scarcity and unavailability can often help drive long term brand value.

[GreenLantern]

Originally Posted by sgrossma

Luxury goods don’t operate like normal goods. As we know, scarcity and unavailability can often help drive long term brand value.

You have to balance building brand value with actually generating sufficient cash flow, profits, and a cash cushion.

Too many watch brands are leaving too much money on the table over the past 12-18 months.

[WatchEater666]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern

You have to balance building brand value with actually generating sufficient cash flow, profits, and a cash cushion.

Too many watch brands are leaving too much money on the table over the past 12-18 months.

I hope this is helpful context, I don't them or their business.

I have a small consumer focused PE fund and I don't think you really realize how hard it is to scale an operation that involves skilled manufacturing up/down.

Small business owners like Gronefeld are also not really trying to scale as aggressively as possible. Operating is stressful, and immensely harder when you're scaling aggressively.

They should be commended for respecting their boundaries and operating the way they want to. If they don't feel they can grow + maintain quality + the lifestyle they want, then who are we to criticize?

Running a company in hypergrowth mode is not for everyone. Working 80 - 100 hours a week is not "fun". Would you give up your lifestyle for marginal increase in net earnings? I have (I love operating), but I don't think most people would want to work 100 hours a week for a shot at making $10m a year when they are already making $1m - $2m a year. I'd assume they are running their co ~15% net EBTIDA and banking around $1.2m - $2.5m a year? What does $10m a year buy you that $2m doesn't unless you a materialistic psychopath? Not much.

[GreenLantern]

I run a medium sized venture fund, and I'm right there with you. I do not disagree.

That said, I do realize how hard it is to scale, and I believe I commented on that above somewhere (or maybe it was elsewhere regarding Gronefeld).

I commend anyone for understanding their own boundaries and respecting them.

That said, it doesn't change the fact that fully stopping all incoming orders for multiple years is potentially detrimental to any business.

I work 80 hours a week. It's fun. It's definitely not for everyone.