This or that: Patek 5205g or ALS 1815 Chrono

[Longhorn]

The weather is getting colder, and I'm getting older, too. I'm considering these pieces to add. Currently I don't have any watch that has a complication beyond a date in my collection.

Patek 5205g Blue Dial - would be my first Patek and my personal favorite model/design they make.




Or

ALS 1815 Chrono - Boutique Edition - would be my second Lange besides my Lange 1, which I just love.




Thoughts? Any other ones you'd like me to consider.

Current collection:
Rolex SD43
Bvlgari Octo Finissimo blue dial
ALS - Lange 1
Moser - Streamliner Centre Seconds

[uniqueMR]

Grab Patek. And its better investment if you care for that.

Plus you already have Lange 1 and no Patek in your current collection. My vote is 5205G (blue dial) or 5205R-010 (black dial/rose gold).

[jamerson80]

For sake of diversity go 5205 blue. Love mine, and like you feel it is one of their better non sport models. That Lange is beautiful, though, and in terms of quality outshines the PP IMO.

Both would be great additions.

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[yoast]

ALS for me. I dont like the centre pinion through the subdial and the windows on the patek. The ALS is beautifully executed and needs to be seen in person.

[Longhorn]

Originally Posted by uniqueMR

Grab Patek. And its better investment if you care for that.

Plus you already have Lange 1 and no Patek in your current collection. My vote is 5205G (blue dial) or 5205R-010 (black dial/rose gold).

I'm not sure about how great the investment prospect is on the 5205G, since the other variations of this model have not held well. But I get it... Patek does better across the board maintaining value compared with Lange.

[Longhorn]

Originally Posted by yoast

ALS for me. I dont like the centre pinion through the subdial and the windows on the patek. The ALS is beautifully executed and needs to be seen in person.

I don't think I ever conscientiously thought about the centre pinion cutting through the subdial despite looking at the 5205 for like 8 years... now I'm questioning whether I like it that design. Thanks!

[JR16]

I would go for 1815 chrono, a watch I plan on adding at some point - gorgeous movement, great proportions. I want to like the 5205 but never felt right when I put it on. Plus, if wearing watches in a rotation like I do, an AC has less appeal (IMO).


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[uscmatt99]

Originally Posted by Longhorn

I don't think I ever conscientiously thought about the centre pinion cutting through the subdial despite looking at the 5205 for like 8 years... now I'm questioning whether I like it that design. Thanks!

Once seen it can't be unseen, better now that after signing on the dotted line! It's always bugged me as well.

[JMac6]

My vote is the 5205G - although the 1815 is a close second to me.

The pinion cutting through the subdial on the 5205G is not perfect. But the lower than half subdials on the 1815 also is not perfect - indeed, it is a remnant of removing the big date.

However, try both of them on, and I promise you will not see these "flaws."

Also, I think the 5205G-013 will hold its value. If you look at its price on the secondary, it is $50k plus. It is definitely the nicest iteration - with the 5205R being a close second for me.

Under any circumstance, though, you cannot go wrong with either. And I want both! (These are my top 2 high-end-ish watches).

[ts3]

Originally Posted by uscmatt99

Once seen it can't be unseen, better now that after signing on the dotted line! It's always bugged me as well.

Same here.

The other thing that has always bothered me is that the day window is wider than the month window including the use of different fonts. I understand why that is the case but there must have been a better way. Asymmetry can be great if it is a feature but here it looks like a bug.

Also don't like the hollow lugs and would pick the 1815 no question.

[wigdog63]

The 1815 for me. Gorgeous front and back, probably my grail watch.

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[Patton250]

Originally Posted by Longhorn

I'm not sure about how great the investment prospect is on the 5205G, since the other variations of this model have not held well. But I get it... Patek does better across the board maintaining value compared with Lange.

This is true but I don’t understand why. The 5205 annual calendar is the best looking by far Patek complication they have. In fact in my opinion nothing else they have in their lineup comes even remotely close to it as far as the dial Design, readability and overall beauty. I have the white dial Rosegold version.

[Patton250]

One watch has a chronograph and a second hand and the other watch has the month, day of the week, date in the month and the moon phase. If you keep it wound you only have to adjust it every February. In my opinion it’s not even close and these two shouldn’t even be compared to each other because it’s not fair to the ALS. Get the Patek. Or choose a different ALS. They also have a bad ass annual calendar.

[moting]

Originally Posted by Longhorn

I don't think I ever conscientiously thought about the centre pinion cutting through the subdial despite looking at the 5205 for like 8 years... now I'm questioning whether I like it that design. Thanks!

The other thing I have noticed recently is the space between the baton and the left window (day) and right window (month) is not the same

[mbalmz]

Originally Posted by Patton250

One watch has a chronograph and a second hand and the other watch has the month, day of the week, date in the month and the moon phase. If you keep it wound you only have to adjust it every February. In my opinion it’s not even close and these two shouldn’t even be compared to each other because it’s not fair to the ALS. Get the Patek. Or choose a different ALS. They also have a bad ass annual calendar.

as far as I know, from a purely watchmaking perspective, a manual wind chronograph of this caliber is actually considered a higher complication than an annual calendar.

this probably explains why both Patek and ALS price their no-date manual-wind chronographs significantly higher than their annual calendars.

[PBJ1925]

Patek for me

[1William]

I prefer the PP for the complications and the blue dial.

[Longhorn]

Originally Posted by moting

The other thing I have noticed recently is the space between the baton and the left window (day) and right window (month) is not the same

Can't be unseen again. Bizarre! I thought this was a matter of camera angle but started seeing it across other models like with 5960, where you can count the hashes.

[_speedmaster_]

Both are great watches. The decision, though, should be made based on which of the two complications you would actually use more.

If you would actually use a chronograph, you can't do much better than the 1815. I do think it will hold its value relatively well in comparison to other ALS models, since this is a historic movement that is well revered.

If you would get more use out of an annual calendar, the 5205 is an excellent choice. One of the most beautifully laid out AC dials on the market imho. As mentioned above, it might be worth your time trying the ALS annual calendar. Additionally, Laurent Ferrier make an excellent annual calendar as well. Both, the ALS and Ferrier annual calendars can be had at great discount in the grey market.

[_speedmaster_]

Originally Posted by mbalmz

as far as I know, from a purely watchmaking perspective, a manual wind chronograph of this caliber is actually considered a higher complication than an annual calendar.

this probably explains why both Patek and ALS price their no-date manual-wind chronographs significantly higher than their annual calendars.

+1. The creation of a chronograph movement from scratch is one of the most difficult in all of watchmaking (it's mostly why Vacheron, Breguet and Omega still use Lemania movements to this day). It's also why the ALS Datograph (of which the 1815 uses the same chronograph movement) is considered a landmark of watchmaking, so much so that Philippe Dufour bought one with his own money.

[Longhorn]

Originally Posted by _speedmaster_

Both are great watches. The decision, though, should be made based on which of the two complications you would actually use more.

If you would actually use a chronograph, you can't do much better than the 1815. I do think it will hold its value relatively well in comparison to other ALS models, since this is a historic movement that is well revered.

If you would get more use out of an annual calendar, the 5205 is an excellent choice. One of the most beautifully laid out AC dials on the market imho. As mentioned above, it might be worth your time trying the ALS annual calendar. Additionally, Laurent Ferrier make an excellent annual calendar as well. Both, the ALS and Ferrier annual calendars can be had at great discount in the grey market.

I don't have a great use case for either complications. As far as annual calendar movements, I feel like Patek's is less advanced compared to other manufacturers with ease of setting. LF's allows you to go back and forward with the calendar with the crown. ALS' calendar allows you to advance the whole with one button press.

Regardless, the consideration for the 5205 is to add a Patek to my collection, and is really the only model of their non-sport lineup that has really appealed to me.

Perhaps I'd use the pulsometer of the 1815 to measure my elevated HR in meetings at work. And the historic movement is one I'd love to add. I actually prefer the aesthetics and proportions of this watch to the Datograph.

[_speedmaster_]

Originally Posted by Longhorn

I don't have a great use case for either complications. As far as annual calendar movements, I feel like Patek's is less advanced compared to other manufacturers with ease of setting. LF's allows you to go back and forward with the calendar with the crown. ALS' calendar allows you to advance the whole with one button press.

Regardless, the consideration for the 5205 is to add a Patek to my collection, and is really the only model of their non-sport lineup that has really appealed to me.

Perhaps I'd use the pulsometer of the 1815 to measure my elevated HR in meetings at work. And the historic movement is one I'd love to add. I actually prefer the aesthetics and proportions of this watch to the Datograph.

Not a bad use case for the pulsometer.

Agree, it's not the most sophisticated annual calendar movement. But, if it speaks to you it speaks to you. I do think it is one of the best looking annual calendars on the market.

Personally, I actually do like using chronographs. I find myself timing stupid things like how long someone is speaking at a meeting or how long it takes to walk from the train station to my office. Annual calendars are less fun and engaging and I have little need to know what month or day of the week it is. But, I understand why people want them.

[ap1]

Patek for me as the fit works better on my wrist

[GolfJunkie]

I like the ALS more on looks alone.

[rolexesandpateks]

Patek for me

[JMac6]

I've tried both on, which is a rarity in this day and age. They are both wonderful on the wrist. Have to say, this Patek shines like a darn jewel though. It is spectacular in person. Of course, the dato kicks it ass when you turn them around.

[BigAppleBill]

You already have a Lange 1 in your nicely diverse collection. But you don’t own a Patek yet. For that reason I would lean toward adding a Patek, but personally the 5205 doesn’t do it for me. I think there are other Patek references that are more appealing. But obviously this isn’t about me or anyone else. It’s all about your personal preference here.

All that said, if you didn’t already have a Lange, IMO there’s absolutely no contest between the two watches you’re considering. The 1815 Chronograph is just so darn good. In fact, I’m moving my 5070G to free up space for something new because I decided my 1815 Chronograph is all my collection needs in a high end chronograph. But that’s just my .

You have an enviable decision to make. Enjoy the process and always choose what speaks to you. I hope you post your decision here.

[Justindo]

I can definitely understand wanting to add a Patek to your collection but for me it wouldn't be this one. I will say that this Patek is practical as far as an annual calendar goes but, while it's practical and modern, it's far from elegant to my eyes. If you want an annual calendar, I'd consider both the automatic Saxonia and the manual 1815 over the Patek. Both are fairly practical, far more classic, and much more successful in design, not to mention having far better movement finishing. I do like the Patek's case with the fluted lugs but, in my opinion, that's the only thing I like about it over the Lange.

All of that said, the Lange 1815 is likely the finest chronograph ever made and a bargain at MSRP so to me it's not really a question.

[pdnb]

As others have said; congratulations on having this choice!

My good friend tends to mock me for utilizing my brain more than my heart… so take this with a grain of salt

On pure aesthetics from both front and back I give it to Lange. Thee is absolutely no debate on the back!!

The white dial boutique 1815 Chrono is an absolute stunner and like you said many prefer it’s aspect ratio to the datograph. I went for the Datograph as I don’t mind the chunkier brother in exchange for the date windows .

While I know many watches leverage the 31 day sub dial for date I do find it harder to read. That is why I prefer Patek annual calendar layout with the date aperture at 6 with moonphase and second. Of course the blue is beautiful.

On intangibles: I give the nod to Patek, it’s longer history, larger market appeal, sport models are extremely/impossible to obtain, and the fact they are privately owned.

if getting this particular Patek allows you to couple with a sports model preferably at the same time or down the road if you really trust the AD or you don’t mind if one doesn’t come, than of course
It’s still a beautiful piece.

On secondary market price; they are a tie in IMO I believe both models take some hit when you buy new and walk out the store but they both have pretty stable 2nd market pricing now that Lange has gotten an uplift this past year and should stay as Lange is paying attention to its distribution model.

On adding to your collection, it was noted that with your Lange 1, the diversity play is a Patek. I do however like the 1815 Chrono over the Lange 1. And as I mentioned earlier I prefer Patek’s other layout for its AC. I lucked out with the 5726….so int that sense i would prefer a different Patek to add.

On day to day enjoyment, I give it to the Chrono as a more interactive machine….while I don’t particularly think 30min chronos are even half as useful as a 60 min Chrono…there are just a lot less of those around! (But that is why I have the Dato and a sinn ezm 1.1). Would you keep your Patek AC on a winder? I don’t… but constantly find myself adjusting it manually via crown as the Power reserve is pretty much a daily use. Like you mentioned, the ACs are relatively more challenging to set with the pushers as the indicators have to be set in a particular order. And as you know… the advantage of not having a date on the dial…is that they are the easiest to set when you have a rotation! Of course if you wind it daily or keep on a winder. Or god forbid, don’t mind wearing your watch not set properly….because they are so mesmerizing to stare at sometimes I forget to even look at the time!

In summary, my vote for the 1815 Chrono, despite you already owning the Lange 1 (the Lange 1 is a classic icon!) unless another Patek that you can obtain is available AND. It helps you on your path to the next Patek!

Best of luck!


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[Dsmith1974]

ALS > PP in all but cachet and bragging rights.


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