Questionable

[ptheglev]

Hi guys,

newbie here, so bear with me, please!

A few years ago I purchased a beautiful Submariner 1680 – nearly a full set.
In order to finance another watch, I sold the 1680 to a guy, who later handed it over to a watchmaker in Holland for a service.

The watchmaker took it in, looked at it and returned it, unwilling to service it, because he found the watchcase to be a fake. Simply too perfect and with traces of modern machinery that didn't excist when the watch was produced back in the late 70's.

He also questioned the punchholes in the certificate and the fact, that the certificate isn't stamped, signed or shows any dealer-name at all is also a dealbreaker, he says.

Please have a look here:

I would love to hear your opinion about the statements.

Best,
Peter

[TimeToGo]

.
Do you have a straight on shot/picture (not at an angle) of the Ref numbers, including the model?

[1675-David]

Not likley to get too many willing to click that link. Post pix instead

[oysterfisher]

a little bit of help...

I think the guys watchmaker isnt quite bad... if the case would be gen, i think thats one of the best cases i´ve ever seen... nearly no sign of wear between the lugs.

[1675-David]

Those crown guards look massive!!

[oysterfisher]

possible a bit too massive, dont they? the shape of the lugs also has been refinished... so i think the watchmaker is a good guy!

[ptheglev]

Originally Posted by 1675-David

Not likley to get too many willing to click that link. Post pix instead

But the maximum size allowed is ridiculous :-(

[ptheglev]

What about the punchholes on the certificate? Font? Placement?

[alwayshere]

have you got better pics of the reference side of the lug?

The crown guard finish does look odd.

[antrolexsub]

Originally Posted by TimeToGo

.
Do you have a straight on shot/picture (not at an angle) of the Ref numbers, including the model?

This! Angles can be deceptive.

[watchlovr]

I don’t like that there is no wear at all from a bracelet.

[ptheglev]

Originally Posted by alwayshere

have you got better pics of the reference side of the lug?

The crown guard finish does look odd.

This is the best picture I have ...

[linesiders]

Originally Posted by ptheglev

But the maximum size allowed is ridiculous :-(

Without having it in hand, I am very hesitant. Engravings looks like that Italian guy on Ebay. Could be wrong. Case super thick.

[Dan S]

Originally Posted by ptheglev

Attachment 1265761

This is the best picture I have ...

I'm also not comfortable with the case and engravings. Looks almost like laser engraving, funny alignment, zero end-link wear, funny crown guards. But it's hard to be really sure from just a few photos.

[Hpozzuoli]

What’s the Italian guy on eBay doing? Is he making fake watches? I buy from there a couple of times per year. Hate to do business with him if he’s not legit.

[1665fan]

Crown guards are too thick for me…..I’m going with fake myself

[rootbeer7]

Case looks incorrect; crown-guards resemble later models and even lugs look too thick in one image.

[linesiders]

Originally Posted by Hpozzuoli

What’s the Italian guy on eBay doing? Is he making fake watches? I buy from there a couple of times per year. Hate to do business with him if he’s not legit.

There is/was a seller from Italy that for years was selling well doctored replica cases on the Fleabay. Just looked and did not see any of his listings. Italian Guy not to be confused with those that bring you the Wimpy Skimpy.

[TimeToGo]

Originally Posted by linesiders

There is/was a seller from Italy that for years was selling well doctored replica cases on the Fleabay. Just looked and did not see any of his listings. Italian Guy not to be confused with those that bring you the Wimpy Skimpy.

You can find some on the watchout section by that seller

https://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=295506

[oysterfisher]

Dont want to modify this thread into a "What do you think about this or that..." thread, but as spoken about cases and the lug area, I tough about a watch i´ve spotted yesterday in the bay...

what do the experts think on this case? I dont trust the case.... Everything is looking too crispy and untouched. The middle case is well polished (especially the crownguards) but the area beween the lugs didnt have much signs of wear.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/13398702867...m=133987028672

[Dan S]

Originally Posted by oysterfisher

Dont want to modify this thread into a "What do you think about this or that..." thread, but as spoken about cases and the lug area, I tough about a watch i´ve spotted yesterday in the bay...

what do the experts think on this case? I dont trust the case.... Everything is looking too crispy and untouched. The middle case is well polished (especially the crownguards) but the area beween the lugs didnt have much signs of wear.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/13398702867...m=133987028672

Looks ok at first glance. That lower crown guard is unfortunate.

[oysterfisher]

@ Dan_S:
I dont trust the case, cause the back engravings look strange and the numbers areas dont show any wear of the bracelet and furthermore the end of the lugs and the down side area of the case (at the lugs) also didnt show much wear of the bracelet... normally there is a LOT of scratches or other sign of wear...

[330ci]

Originally Posted by Dan S

Looks ok at first glance. That lower crown guard is unfortunate.

The lack of end link markings is certainly a red flag, but the engraving itself looks off on OPs too, most notable with the inconsistent G styles

[oysterfisher]

well, the 7 and 2 are looking longer than the 8 and 9 as well...

[linesiders]

Originally Posted by TimeToGo

You can find some on the watchout section by that seller

https://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=295506

Yup - that is the one. Wish I had my notes hand.y that I compiled back in the day. They are saved somewhere, just not handy.

Originally Posted by oysterfisher

Dont want to modify this thread into a "What do you think about this or that..." thread, but as spoken about cases and the lug area, I tough about a watch i´ve spotted yesterday in the bay...

what do the experts think on this case? I dont trust the case.... Everything is looking too crispy and untouched. The middle case is well polished (especially the crownguards) but the area beween the lugs didnt have much signs of wear.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/13398702867...m=133987028672

Case is fine. A couple things:

1: This was on a Rivet bracelet with poorly adjusted links - OR a non-Rolex / C&I bracelet - you cam see the tab indications on the underside are several MM outward than a proper fitting bracelet - which explains whey there is no rub.

2: Unusual for a 1967 that is 7928 and not 7928/0 and it is missing REGISTERED DESIGN and STAINLESS STEEL. Service Dial, Hands, Insert all likely swapped in during the 80s / 90s. 1967 brought a lot of changes an d weird mix of dials and case engravings on the 7928 so while unusual, that things are odd is not necessarily unusual.

Sides and tops of crown guards are oddly polished but case looks legit.

Seller is a pretty good seller, Andrew Shear, out of NYC. The Cream of the Crop makes his website / IG, the lesser mortals make it to Ebay.

[shammad10]

Originally Posted by linesiders

Yup - that is the one. Wish I had my notes hand.y that I compiled back in the day. They are saved somewhere, just not handy.



Case is fine. A couple things:

1: This was on a Rivet bracelet with poorly adjusted links - OR a non-Rolex / C&I bracelet - you cam see the tab indications on the underside are several MM outward than a proper fitting bracelet - which explains whey there is no rub.

2: Unusual for a 1967 that is 7928 and not 7928/0 and it is missing REGISTERED DESIGN and STAINLESS STEEL. Service Dial, Hands, Insert all likely swapped in during the 80s / 90s. 1967 brought a lot of changes an d weird mix of dials and case engravings on the 7928 so while unusual, that things are odd is not necessarily unusual.

Sides and tops of crown guards are oddly polished but case looks legit.

Seller is a pretty good seller, Andrew Shear, out of NYC. The Cream of the Crop makes his website / IG, the lesser mortals make it to Ebay.

Hi any thoughts on this that I took today?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[MrChamfers]

Looks good!

[shammad10]

Originally Posted by MrChamfers

Looks good!

Yeah it’s really lovely- but just wondered about the engraving after the above conversation. Kinda new to this too- so wouldn’t want to buy anything that wasn’t 100% legit!
Watch has been serviced by a rolex accredited watchmaker so I would hope he would have been able to tell- but you never know!!!

[shammad10]

Originally Posted by MrChamfers

Looks good!

Oh sorry I read your name and the ‘looks good’ as one sentence!!
So thought you were saying that the chamfers look good haha.

Okay great thanks, that’s reassuring. I think I might purchase this watch- I posted some photos in the ‘service dials’ thread. It really is lovely.

[MrChamfers]

Originally Posted by shammad10

Oh sorry I read your name and the ‘looks good’ as one sentence!!
So thought you were saying that the chamfers look good haha.

Okay great thanks, that’s reassuring. I think I might purchase this watch- I posted some photos in the ‘service dials’ thread. It really is lovely.

Engravings are tough, wait for a real expert.
I have seen some that looked horrible to me, but were then validated by more knowledgeable folks here.