What are my chances?

[Watchlover4789]

Hello everybody, finally made an appt to visit one of the ap botique in Singapore. Express in 3 watches, ap chrono 41mm 50th anniversary, as I was told the older chrono they haven’t been receiving it for a very long time, they are not sure will the 50anni Chrono replace them. I do not have any purchase history too, wondering what’s my chances in getting them

[psm11]

Originally Posted by Watchlover4789

Hello everybody, finally made an appt to visit one of the ap botique in Singapore. Express in 3 watches, ap chrono 41mm 50th anniversary, as I was told the older chrono they haven’t been receiving it for a very long time, they are not sure will the 50anni Chrono replace them. I do not have any purchase history too, wondering what’s my chances in getting them

Hard to say for sure, but as a new customer with no history it is probably pretty unlikely. I think the chances of new customers getting any kind of Royal Oak this year is unlikely. I was told in a round about way by my SA that most of the 50th anniversary models have already be allocated to existing customers.

I have been hunting the RO Panda (which has supposedly been discontinued)--when you say they haven't been receiving them is it just that house in particular or all the boutiques in general?

[VogelPhoenix]

Originally Posted by Watchlover4789

Hello everybody, finally made an appt to visit one of the ap botique in Singapore. Express in 3 watches, ap chrono 41mm 50th anniversary, as I was told the older chrono they haven’t been receiving it for a very long time, they are not sure will the 50anni Chrono replace them. I do not have any purchase history too, wondering what’s my chances in getting them

Zero, unless you can come up with a convincing reason why they should let you cut in front of the long line of existing clients asking for the same watches.

[Seddyspaghetti]

Slim.

[supernova]

Unfortunately will be a hard 0% this year and any 50th anniversary rotor RO.

Keep up the contact and hopefully next year and beyond. Or go grey....

[namco1]

Originally Posted by supernova

Unfortunately will be a hard 0% this year and any 50th anniversary rotor RO.

Keep up the contact and hopefully next year and beyond. Or go grey....

The new 38mm chronographs has the 50th anniversary rotor also?

[crispyness87]

Originally Posted by namco1

The new 38mm chronographs has the 50th anniversary rotor also?

Unfortunately no.

[Watchlover4789]

Originally Posted by namco1

The new 38mm chronographs has the 50th anniversary rotor also?

Nope, only the 41.

[Watchlover4789]

I think it’s kinda hard too, close to 0% SA were saying that this year demand was much much higher and the 50th anniversary watches made it worse.

[messikens]

Originally Posted by Watchlover4789

I think it’s kinda hard too, close to 0% SA were saying that this year demand was much much higher and the 50th anniversary watches made it worse.

Same from what I hear... If you don't KNOW you're getting an allocation with a 50th rotor - then 99% chance you won't get it .

Grey / Code / a ROO may be a better chance at this point


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[psm11]

Originally Posted by messikens

Same from what I hear... If you don't KNOW you're getting an allocation with a 50th rotor - then 99% chance you won't get it .

Grey / Code / a ROO may be a better chance at this point


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Do we think it will be any better next year (once the 50th anniversary rotor models are no longer being made)? In other words, is this due to the special anniversary models or just a general increase in demand (regardless of the special rotor models)?

[Reign]

Originally Posted by psm11

Do we think it will be any better next year (once the 50th anniversary rotor models are no longer being made)? In other words, is this due to the special anniversary models or just a general increase in demand (regardless of the special rotor models)?

It’ll still be awful next year for RO. A lot of pieces this year are going to people they know well / have good history that they’re nearly certain won’t flip. Next year they’ll have a lot of catching up to do in regards to servicing newer folks or people with an okay history.

It’s not ideal but AP very much cares about who their watches are being allocated to and they want them on the wrist of end users and not flippers


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[messikens]

Originally Posted by Reign

It’ll still be awful next year for RO. A lot of pieces this year are going to people they know well / have good history that they’re nearly certain won’t flip. Next year they’ll have a lot of catching up to do in regards to servicing newer folks or people with an okay history.

It’s not ideal but AP very much cares about who their watches are being allocated to and they want them on the wrist of end users and not flippers


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I agree. Anything 50th anniversary rotor is going to go (by and large) to existing loyal customers... So the pent up demand for anyone else is going to be huge into next year

Put it this way : 50th anniversary is going to be really really hard / borderline impossible

Any other RO : just really really hard

Any ROO / diver / code : really hard


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[mickyd329]

Originally Posted by psm11

Hard to say for sure, but as a new customer with no history it is probably pretty unlikely. I think the chances of new customers getting any kind of Royal Oak this year is unlikely. I was told in a round about way by my SA that most of the 50th anniversary models have already be allocated to existing customers.

I have been hunting the RO Panda (which has supposedly been discontinued)--when you say they haven't been receiving them is it just that house in particular or all the boutiques in general?

It seems purchase history is not a necessity anymore for hard to get models. It seems boutique SA's at certain boutiques are taking cash on the side (markup) from clients to get hard to get pieces. As allocations have to be approved by the boutique manager, I guess they are in on it too. This is not markup being recognized by AP, but by the employees of the boutique. Just a shame what it's come to.

[crispyness87]

Originally Posted by mickyd329

It seems purchase history is not a necessity anymore for hard to get models. It seems boutique SA's at certain boutiques are taking cash on the side (markup) from clients to get hard to get pieces. As allocations have to be approved by the boutique manager, I guess they are in on it too. This is not markup being recognized by AP, but by the employees of the boutique. Just a shame what it's come to.

This is a bold and serious allegation to make.

[levelero]

Originally Posted by crispyness87

This is a bold and serious allegation to make.

Not much sense one.


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[DonLee]

Originally Posted by mickyd329

It seems purchase history is not a necessity anymore for hard to get models. It seems boutique SA's at certain boutiques are taking cash on the side (markup) from clients to get hard to get pieces. As allocations have to be approved by the boutique manager, I guess they are in on it too. This is not markup being recognized by AP, but by the employees of the boutique. Just a shame what it's come to.

what a load of cow dung.

Considering that it's all now in-house, I'd say that would be very very difficult to do that now. Every sales has to have the approval of their superiors who have other superiors overlooking.

I had no purchase history, and I certainly didn't pay someone under the table, yet I was given the opportunity to buy a beautiful RO. The process was very organic. I showed my passion, they knew I was a serious collector. A friend who is an AP customer put in a good word for me, and one day, I got the call.

dreams do come true. People often think it's too difficult and don't bother. The reality is, if you don't try, you'll never get the chance.

[Longhorn]

Originally Posted by mickyd329

It seems purchase history is not a necessity anymore for hard to get models. It seems boutique SA's at certain boutiques are taking cash on the side (markup) from clients to get hard to get pieces. As allocations have to be approved by the boutique manager, I guess they are in on it too. This is not markup being recognized by AP, but by the employees of the boutique. Just a shame what it's come to.

Can't just throw that out there without revealing the locations for it to be substantiated.

[macrowatch]

Both statements can be true though right? I mean at these price levels and spreads, surely there is some bad behavior. It's just too tempting. Maybe not excessive, but mickyd329's scenario has to be playing out somewhere. In this past, emphasis past, you could see HK boutique playing silly games. Look up the glassdoor reviews by past employees.

At the same time, I bet DonLee's experience is also true. After all, all companies including AP want to continue to find new customers that are going to buy multiple pieces and high 'life time value' clients. Even more so if production is increasing. Plus his friend's referral probably carried very heavy weight.

[mickyd329]

Wow, didn't anticipate such a response. I'm not one to get into pissing matches on this forum, so I won't. I didn't say it was an AP policy and I didn't say ALL. Every organization or industry is going to have it's fair share of bad apples. If you don't believe that, I don't know what to tell you.

I'm sure there are plenty of cases where a person without purchase history can get hard to get pieces as AP is trying to expand it's client base. No argument there.

On that same note, I have always wondered how all those hard to get pieces end up in the grey market with stickers still on. I doubt they were bought by watch enthusiasts like us that waited for prolonged period of time just so they can flip it for a profit. Made more sense back in the day when AD's used it as an avenue to move their hard to move pieces along with the hard to get ones.

Very different market now. Nothing is hard to move and a rogue employee taking advantage of this market is not out of the realm of possibility?

[VogelPhoenix]

Originally Posted by mickyd329

On that same note, I have always wondered how all those hard to get pieces end up in the grey market with stickers still on.

Very different market now. Nothing is hard to move and a rogue employee taking advantage of this market is not out of the realm of possibility?

I have no doubt that this was prevalent in the past, in particular through ADs not directly beholden to AP, and in certain regions of the world. I actually think that some of the recent run-up in grey market prices is due to AP moving things in-house and supply to the grey market drying up. Finally, there is not a single 16202, 26240 or 15550 listed on C24 and outside of C24 most of the few advertised anniversary ROs come with stock pictures and laughable asking prices. That suggests that AP boutique managers funneling this year's ROs to flippers is an exception - and for really hot pieces, allocations are approved significantly above the boutique manager level.

[Reign]

APs got a lot of checks and balance in place to avoid this rogue issue, it’s not perfect but it works.

Depending on the piece, approvals exist at a wide variety of levels. If pieces are flipped, it’s flagged in the system for the SA and the buyer.

The buyer is blacklisted and the SA is questioned. This might happen for one watch but it doesn’t happen on a multiple watch basis.

There’ll always be the occasional watch that slips out but its limited. Most of those BNIB watches come from JVs where AP isn’t the direct seller and has less control. Again not all perfect but it works. That said, there is a number where I’m sure folks are okay with torching their AP relationship to pocket the gain and they can’t control that.

If you’re aware of this practice at a corporate boutique, I highly encourage you to reach out to management, particularly in NA and it’ll be investigated and dealt with. AP takes this very seriously where they can control it

[mickyd329]

Originally Posted by VogelPhoenix

I have no doubt that this was prevalent in the past, in particular through ADs not directly beholden to AP, and in certain regions of the world. I actually think that some of the recent run-up in grey market prices is due to AP moving things in-house and supply to the grey market drying up. Finally, there is not a single 16202, 26240 or 15550 listed on C24 and outside of C24 most of the few advertised anniversary ROs come with stock pictures and laughable asking prices. That suggests that AP boutique managers funneling this year's ROs to flippers is an exception - and for really hot pieces, allocations are approved significantly above the boutique manager level.

Originally Posted by Reign

APs got a lot of checks and balance in place to avoid this rogue issue, it’s not perfect but it works.

Depending on the piece, approvals exist at a wide variety of levels. If pieces are flipped, it’s flagged in the system for the SA and the buyer.

The buyer is blacklisted and the SA is questioned. This might happen for one watch but it doesn’t happen on a multiple watch basis.

There’ll always be the occasional watch that slips out but its limited. Most of those BNIB watches come from JVs where AP isn’t the direct seller and has less control. Again not all perfect but it works. That said, there is a number where I’m sure folks are okay with torching their AP relationship to pocket the gain and they can’t control that.

If you’re aware of this practice at a corporate boutique, I highly encourage you to reach out to management, particularly in NA and it’ll be investigated and dealt with. AP takes this very seriously where they can control it

I agree with your above points. I'm not talking about the very special models, but more standard in demand models like the 15500 or 26331 for example where allocations can be decided at the store level.


I'm sure AP has checks and balances in place as they should, but not perfect like you say. Not saying it's a common practice, but any transactions that happen in this manner is a loss for us enthusiasts.

I don't see how anything changes by reaching out to AP. Very difficult thing to prove unless you catch someone in the act.

I also don't want to be one of those customers that complain heavily to AP. I have a great relationship with my boutique and patiently wait my turns. I've been waiting for a black dial 15500 and they offered me a silver dial last year. I turned it down and it took them by surprise. lol. I told them I'll wait for the black dial as I want what I want and don't care what they are worth in the grey market. That piece is way better off with someone who has been waiting for the silver dial than me and not be worn much.

Anyways, didn't make the post to get people twisted here. Just pointing out this type of environment can spur some unethical practices.

[Ashj52]

I think the chances of achieving something this year are low in your situation, which I think is similar to mine. My boutique has explained that this year is very very unlikely, and to be honest I think it’s fair. I would expect previous AP customers to be at the top of the list for an anniversary piece rather than someone new like myself. I explained I am happy to wait and understand the situation, and sounds fair. :)