Panerai Submersible - new vs used prices. Not much different.

[michaelodonnell123]

Hello Panerai Fans -

Been thinking about getting a pre-owned Submersible but I see that pre-owned - beat up used ones with no box or papers are not much cheaper than a spankin' brand new one from the boutique with an 8 year warranty, box, papers and a free hat.

Why is this? What is driving used ones to be so highly priced? It's not like they are rare, and getting a new one is very easy. The boutiques are fully stocked and ready to sell to anybody who wants one. Unlike Rolex, there is NO shortage of Panerai Submersible watches.

I was considering buying a pre-owned one because I thought that they would have depreciated and I would be getting a bargain. But that doesn't seem to be the case.

Usually "supply and demand" dictates market prices, but clearly that is not the case here. There is certainly more supply than demand and still prices are roughly equal for used and new. I basically have no compelling reason to buy a used one.

With that said...the new 'Verde Smeraldo' is very hard to resist.

[rootbeer7]

With Richemont buying Watchfinder, it’s allowed them to keep prices artificially high. That is until you try to sell back to them! If you have the head for it a private sale is better value, or as you say get new with all the service.

[Chris]

Originally Posted by rootbeer7

With Richemont buying Watchfinder, it’s allowed them to keep prices artificially high. That is until you try to sell back to them! If you have the head for it a private sale is better value, or as you say get new with all the service.

[tedo]

Any experience /

thoughts on purchasing from Watchfinder?

I ask given the connection — Watchfinder is owned by Richemont, which owns Panerai, and the statement below that accompanies the Panerai watches they list for sale:

“This Panerai has undergone a thorough inspection of accuracy, functionality and condition at our Panerai certified service centre to determine the level of reconditioning required to meet our strict standards. It has also been checked against our records to ensure authenticity.”

Feel this provides some extra peace of mind when purchasing a preowned Panerai — especially with the “ Panerai certified service” reference?

[michaelodonnell123]

Originally Posted by rootbeer7

With Richemont buying Watchfinder, it’s allowed them to keep prices artificially high. That is until you try to sell back to them! If you have the head for it a private sale is better value, or as you say get new with all the service.

But that was the contention of my original post - private sales are NOT a better value. They are still asking for almost the same price as buying new. My question is: why?

[michaelodonnell123]

Originally Posted by tedo

Any experience /

thoughts on purchasing from Watchfinder?

I ask given the connection — Watchfinder is owned by Richemont, which owns Panerai, and the statement below that accompanies the Panerai watches they list for sale:

“This Panerai has undergone a thorough inspection of accuracy, functionality and condition at our Panerai certified service centre to determine the level of reconditioning required to meet our strict standards. It has also been checked against our records to ensure authenticity.”

Feel this provides some extra peace of mind when purchasing a preowned Panerai — especially with the “ Panerai certified service” reference?

But price is not a compelling reason to buy a pre-owned Submersible, they are almost the same price as new.

[roger.bolton]

This goes to the real resale value of Panerai, which for many models is very high.

For 5% difference I would buy new.

[shammad10]

There are some PAM683 available in the UK for £3500 discount.

[michaelodonnell123]

Originally Posted by roger.bolton

This goes to the real resale value of Panerai, which for many models is very high.

For 5% difference I would buy new.

What I am not understanding is why isn't 'supply & demand' working here. There is plenty of supply and not enough demand, so shouldn't used Panerai's sell cheap?

[Dan2010]

Originally Posted by michaelodonnell123

What I am not understanding is why isn't 'supply & demand' working here. There is plenty of supply and not enough demand, so shouldn't used Panerai's sell cheap?

Supply and demand IS working. You just have a false sense of what is happening in the Panerai resale market.

It's become fun to bash Panerai for a variety of reasons, some legitimate and some not, but some models still do hold their value. Others, of course, do not and can be had for a great discount. Panerai is very model specific and you can't always believe what the "Paneristi" say because they are a very small niche group.

[roger.bolton]

To the OP, items go in and out stock. Sometimes the grey has it only and may attract higher prices. Some sellers are chancing that hope someone will not know retail/availability and buy at a heigh price.

[mobster600]

I feel the same way about all watch prices right now. It feels like a high tide has risen all ships. I'd love to pick up a pre-owned watch at a steal but I feel that has gone away for the time. I'm holding out for those opportunities. That's how the watch market use to be. There were a small handful of highly desirable models across all watch brands which traded at strong prices. Now that effect has expanded significantly. Hang in there. Things come in cycles. Not everyone can afford to spend 10's of thousands extra for a watch.

[michaelodonnell123]

Originally Posted by Dan2010

Supply and demand IS working. You just have a false sense of what is happening in the Panerai resale market.

It's become fun to bash Panerai for a variety of reasons, some legitimate and some not, but some models still do hold their value. Others, of course, do not and can be had for a great discount. Panerai is very model specific and you can't always believe what the "Paneristi" say because they are a very small niche group.

Please post a link to these 'great discounts' so I can buy one. Show me that supply and demand is actually working.

[michaelodonnell123]

Originally Posted by roger.bolton

To the OP, items go in and out stock. Sometimes the grey has it only and may attract higher prices. Some sellers are chancing that hope someone will not know retail/availability and buy at a heigh price.

We are not talking Rolex with "no stock" on the shelves and a 100 year wait list. The market, (new and used) is flooded with more Panerai's for sale than buyers. Yet nobody is discounting them.
I own a Panerai, so I am happy to see they are holding their value very well. I just don't understand how?

[htc8p]

i dont know where you are checking your prices but i have been buying and selling pams and there are very much depreciated. very affordable even for previously hot models.

besides the old models are of much higher quality than the new models.

[watchmavan]

Originally Posted by htc8p

i dont know where you are checking your prices but i have been buying and selling pams and there are very much depreciated. very affordable even for previously hot models.

besides the old models are of much higher quality than the new models.

Maybe in your neck of the woods that's the case but here in Melbourne, Australia they are not readily available in AD'S but wait times are negligible. As for prices though, there is Littles difference between new and used. And buying from OS is not an option because of import duties.


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[Dan2010]

Originally Posted by michaelodonnell123

Please post a link to these 'great discounts' so I can buy one. Show me that supply and demand is actually working.

Supply and demand is working just fine. I have clients that are watch dealers. I know what I am talking about. My point was that there aren't a lot of discounts because there is a demand. People love to come on these forums and act like nobody is buying Panerai. They are selling more watches than they ever have. Its just not hardcore watch people who jump on a watch forum and talk about their watch.

[michaelodonnell123]

Originally Posted by htc8p

i dont know where you are checking your prices but i have been buying and selling pams and there are very much depreciated. very affordable even for previously hot models.

besides the old models are of much higher quality than the new models.

Please post the link to the sellers who are selling them for a depreciated asking price.

[michaelodonnell123]

Originally Posted by Dan2010

Supply and demand is working just fine. I have clients that are watch dealers. I know what I am talking about. My point was that there aren't a lot of discounts because there is a demand. People love to come on these forums and act like nobody is buying Panerai. They are selling more watches than they ever have. Its just not hardcore watch people who jump on a watch forum and talk about their watch.

I think you are right. I too was thinking that the demand was not there because of the articles I read and the videos on YouTube saying that Panerai "lost its hype" and nobody wants them. Clearly they are wrong. The demand is very much there.

[opawlows]

Originally Posted by michaelodonnell123

I think you are right. I too was thinking that the demand was not there because of the articles I read and the videos on YouTube saying that Panerai "lost its hype" and nobody wants them. Clearly they are wrong. The demand is very much there.

I think most of these Youtube 'watch experts/enthusiasts' put their content out bashing Panerai because it seems to be the 'in-thing' to do and they know it will generate views. It's also extremely easy and fairly lazy to simply repeat the messages that they hear on other channels/sources.

[Andy0331]

Originally Posted by michaelodonnell123

I think you are right. I too was thinking that the demand was not there because of the articles I read and the videos on YouTube saying that Panerai "lost its hype" and nobody wants them. Clearly they are wrong. The demand is very much there.

Panerai lost its insane hype from the mid-late 2000's, but there is certainly still a demand; it's just not nearly as wild as back then, when they were more hyped than Rolex.

[Polar Bear]

Originally Posted by michaelodonnell123

Please post the link to the sellers who are selling them for a depreciated asking price.

How cheap do you want them to be?

https://www.chrono24.com/panerai/pan...id19919185.htm
$10,948aud
Australian Retail- $12,700aud

https://www.chrono24.com/panerai/pan...id15868543.htm
$17,224aud
Australian Retail- $20,100

Both listings new/unworn
If you want to go into VGC, theres tons more with at better prices

I picked my PAM311 up in New Condition for a little under $14k
Aus Retail was close to $25k when i bought it a year ago

[rlj676]

Originally Posted by Polar Bear

How cheap do you want them to be?

https://www.chrono24.com/panerai/pan...id19919185.htm
$10,948aud
Australian Retail- $12,700aud

https://www.chrono24.com/panerai/pan...id15868543.htm
$17,224aud
Australian Retail- $20,100

Both listings new/unworn
If you want to go into VGC, theres tons more with at better prices

I picked my PAM311 up in New Condition for a little under $14k
Aus Retail was close to $25k when i bought it a year ago

Submersibles…?

[Polar Bear]

Originally Posted by rlj676

Submersibles…?

https://www.chrono24.com/panerai/pan...id23137646.htm - $13,450au
Aus Retail- $15,600au

https://www.chrono24.com/panerai/pan...id22408847.htm - $26,195au
Aus Retail- $29,600

Again, BNIB

[michaelodonnell123]

Originally Posted by Polar Bear

https://www.chrono24.com/panerai/pan...id23137646.htm - $13,450au
Aus Retail- $15,600au

https://www.chrono24.com/panerai/pan...id22408847.htm - $26,195au
Aus Retail- $29,600

Again, BNIB

For me, those prices are not low enough to justify buying used. For just a few dollars more, you can buy a brand new Submersible with an 8 year warranty and guaranteed to be authentic. However, I am glad to see they hold their value very well.
https://www.panerai.com/us/en/collec...bmersible.html

[rlj676]

Originally Posted by michaelodonnell123

For me, those prices are not low enough to justify buying used. For just a few dollars more, you can buy a brand new Submersible with an 8 year warranty and guaranteed to be authentic. However, I am glad to see they hold their value very well.
https://www.panerai.com/us/en/collec...bmersible.html

Agree. I didn’t find enough discount at all on used when looking for my 683. Best deals were dinged up heavy used from Japan, and still only saved 1500 or so.

[rlj676]

Originally Posted by Polar Bear

https://www.chrono24.com/panerai/pan...id23137646.htm - $13,450au
Aus Retail- $15,600au

https://www.chrono24.com/panerai/pan...id22408847.htm - $26,195au
Aus Retail- $29,600

Again, BNIB

How does showing discounted new ones invalidate OPs point against used?

[Polar Bear]

Originally Posted by rlj676

How does showing discounted new ones invalidate OPs point against used?

OPs question was why aren't used subs considerably cheaper than new ones

As many have said, its very model specific, but if you're asking a broad question, I provided a broad answer
I can find a number of used subs that are 10%-30% cheaper than their original retail, but then that brings up an apples to apples argument due to completeness of the set, condition and age

Of course something that is old and BTS is going to be cheaper than something brand new, instead i drew attention to the fact you can find BNIB models selling privately for 10%-15% under retail (the original number someone threw out was 5%)

[rlj676]

Originally Posted by Polar Bear

OPs question was why aren't used subs considerably cheaper than new ones

As many have said, its very model specific, but if you're asking a broad question, I provided a broad answer
I can find a number of used subs that are 10%-30% cheaper than their original retail, but then that brings up an apples to apples argument due to completeness of the set, condition and age

Of course something that is old and BTS is going to be cheaper than something brand new, instead i drew attention to the fact you can find BNIB models selling privately for 10%-15% under retail (the original number someone threw out was 5%)

So used for 10% off or new for 10% off? In other words he’s right why buy a used sub. I came to same conclusion. Despite the talk panarai isn’t “hot” there is just no big depreciation on submersibles to justify used it seems. I was just happy to have an option to buy new and walk out with it that day!

[chris nyc]

OP, you are trying to paint a picture here with one brush.... You are way off on many of your arguments. To sit here and speak about the panerai "used market" without specific model references, is just kinda foolish and pointless. Different references vary in their production numbers each year, some are limited Editions, some are special editions, some are produced annually, some are produced one time.

Boutiques do not discount, that's first and foremost, unless you have a long buying history and even then, a discount is rare. Boutiques also now ALL charge sales tax. So don't forget to figure that in on your new piece.

The 8 year warranties are all transferable, a point that should be made. So if you find a used piece you like, with the 8 year, it will transfer, regardless of private sale or from a reputable watch reseller website.

A lot of luxury goods are up in value considerably right now, across the board....the used panerai market is no different. I can site specific pieces that i looked at a year or more ago, that are now selling for 10-15% more than when i looked at them. The demand IS there and the supply is the same or lesser.

To really discuss this, why don't you site some specific models you're interested in, that would be a more relevant discussion.