5513 Project Watch

[Pure_class]

Hey everyone - I am looking for some advice as I have reached a point where I can not figure a path forward. I have been procuring parts to build my own 5513 watch. The caveat is the case is not a genuine case. It is a very nice sterile case made to genuine specifications and has a plexi crystal etc. I have already installed a Rolex 703 crown tube and crown and it has passed water resistance tests to 300m (friend of mine tested it on his Omega seamaster machine). My initial desire with this project was to make a watch that had the vintage styling and components (all genuine) and 1520 movement but be able to use it for daily use, and in the water without worrying about hurting something actually vintage.

I have a nice NOS 1520 and would be using 5513 Luminova service dial hands and dial (again for function). I already have a nice F serial 16610 that I wear a lot of the time but have recently over the past couple years really enjoyed vintage subs. I don't see myself owning an actual 5513 at this point since they are becoming so valuable and with tritium etc it wouldn't be what I am looking for.

I have been going about this project with the thought process similar to those who restore or build older cars like the Shelby Cobra projects where it has the same looks and in some case same motors/drivetrain, but is not a matching numbers car worth over $100k Instead it is a car that can be enjoyed and driven etc without to much worry.

Am I wasting my time? I just wanted to know if anyone else has ever built something like this or is in the process of building a watch that is not necessarily a complete restoration. This project started out very enthusiastic but lately I am on the fence and considering abandoning all together.

[alwayshere]

Do whatever makes you happy is what I say as a starting point but do consider the economics before you go too deep into the project.

edit: didnt read the full post. sorry.

Why not just source a genuine 5513 case and bam! a complete watch!

[HERITAGE82]

I think it’s a worthwhile project to carry out considering you have a lot of the parts already. The purists may throw a fit since it’s not a Rolex case, but if you’ll enjoy wearing it and have someone to service it then go for it!

[Dan S]

Did you consider buying a 5513 with service parts?

Also, can you clarify your question? At first you seemed to suggest that you were stuck and needed advice about how to move forward? Then later, you seemed to ask a more philosophical question about whether it was a worthwhile project? So I'm a little confused. Apologies if I didn't read carefully enough.

[hutch300]

I am not even sure this thread is allowed as it regards purpose built non-genuine watch. In regards to your quest - build a fraken with original parts. Use of non-genuine case means you won't have a rolex as designed. I personally would never love it. You do you, but keep the non-genuine talk to a minimum.

[TuRo]

You're 80% of the way there - just buy a scruffy case (doesn't matter if it's not SRL no correct) and then you'll have a watch of value (fake case makes a watch just parts value-and c 30-40% more if whole watch is all Rolex) and something that you don't have nagging away at you every time someone ask you to look at it, or in fact you look at it! * I saw a 80s case go for £1475 on eBay. The caseback be another circa £500 if you take any year (pre72) or a later one/service case back.

For me, be like buying a 246 Dino with everything correct except the body shell which was refabricated - couldn't do it!

[Pure_class]

Originally Posted by Dan S

Did you consider buying a 5513 with service parts?

Also, can you clarify your question? At first you seemed to suggest that you were stuck and needed advice about how to move forward? Then later, you seemed to ask a more philosophical question about whether it was a worthwhile project? So I'm a little confused. Apologies if I didn't read carefully enough.

No I hadn't actually looked into a service 5513. Yes this whole post is mainly just looking for some direction I guess on a more philosophical term rather than technical. Just wondering if others have built watches from different parts to achieve something more functional than original etc.

[Pure_class]

Originally Posted by hutch300

I am not even sure this thread is allowed as it regards purpose built non-genuine watch. In regards to your quest - build a fraken with original parts. Use of non-genuine case means you won't have a rolex as designed. I personally would never love it. You do you, but keep the non-genuine talk to a minimum.

I definitely don't fully intend to speak about non-genuine parts. Not my purpose here for sure. Everything I have is genuine (except mid-case) that was part of the concern. Wanted to build something that I didn't have to worry about corrosion or pitting etc making the water resistance compromised, so I was asking about aftermarket mid cases and if its worth even doing a project with it. I don't think you can even get a new 5513 service mid-case from Rolex anymore.

[Pure_class]

Originally Posted by TuRo

You're 80% of the way there - just buy a scruffy case (doesn't matter if it's not SRL no correct) and then you'll have a watch of value (fake case makes a watch just parts value-and c 30-40% more if whole watch is all Rolex) and something that you don't have nagging away at you every time someone ask you to look at it, or in fact you look at it! * I saw a 80s case go for £1475 on eBay. The caseback be another circa £500 if you take any year (pre72) or a later one/service case back.

For me, be like buying a 246 Dino with everything correct except the body shell which was refabricated - couldn't do it!

This is kind of where my head has been lately. Is the final product going to be what I want or is it going to be meh and then I part out and sell. The car analogy is what I have been going over myself. I ask, do you want a genuine chassis that has been restored and maybe still has some wear/tear or a new custom chassis that is solid and built to spec to take the original parts. The watch world definitely has less tolerance than the car world.

[Pure_class]

Originally Posted by alwayshere

Do whatever makes you happy is what I say as a starting point but do consider the economics before you go too deep into the project.

edit: didnt read the full post. sorry.

Why not just source a genuine 5513 case and bam! a complete watch!

I would be very interested to source a genuine 5513 case, but my searches have lead me to nothing. They seem very hard to come by, and if you do find one, not sure if the condition would lend itself to be water resistant etc.

[linesiders]

I don't care what you do as long as you do not to to sell it as authentic, that said, the most economical way to do it is to have the money set aside and find a decent real case and start there, otherwise your value is only legit parts.

I would never consider an aftermarket case, ever, you will look at it knowing it is not authentic

[Pure_class]

Originally Posted by linesiders

I don't care what you do as long as you do not to to sell it as authentic, that said, the most economical way to do it is to have the money set aside and find a decent real case and start there, otherwise your value is only legit parts.

I would never consider an aftermarket case, ever, you will look at it knowing it is not authentic

Yeah I wouldn't ever sell as authentic. Would only part out. Definitely leaning towards abandoning the project. I've been searching for a used case for almost a year or more and have yet to find one. I only found a PCG case which was too early for what I was trying to build.

[Dan S]

Originally Posted by linesiders

I would never consider an aftermarket case, ever, you will look at it knowing it is not authentic

Totally agree, it would give me no joy at all; no better than wearing a counterfeit bought on a street corner. I'm totally baffled how people walk around wearing fake watches. I'd rather wear an authentic G-Shock.

[Pure_class]

Originally Posted by Dan S

Totally agree, it would give me no joy at all; no better than wearing a counterfeit bought on a street corner. I'm totally baffled how people walk around wearing fake watches. I'd rather wear an authentic G-Shock.

I think that is why I have been held up. I also don't want to walk around with something that isn't completely legit. I've been torn and rationalizing for this project since its vintage etc etc, but at the end of the day I think that is what is holding me back. May be best to move on for now.

[linesiders]

Originally Posted by Pure_class

Yeah I wouldn't ever sell as authentic. Would only part out. Definitely leaning towards abandoning the project. I've been searching for a used case for almost a year or more and have yet to find one. I only found a PCG case which was too early for what I was trying to build.

Somebody else might attempt to sell it as real. Slippery slope.

Project watches often come along, what you are looking for, mostly service parts, comes along at the best pricing. If I were in your shoes, I would sell all of the accumulated parts, and wait for the case to come along, then make your decisions from there.

Lunmiova hands are easy to find and cheap, service dial is cheap, service insert is cheap.

[HERITAGE82]

I think fake watch is a bit harsh for this project. He has gone through the trouble of acquiring all OEM components except the midcase so where does aftermarket play a role? If he put an aftermarket bracelet with OEM clasp on a OEM case is it still fake?

He has a valid pint about it being nearly impossible to find a decent midcase for sale and if found the prices are usually high.

Aftermarket and counterfeit are very different terms.

[linesiders]

Originally Posted by HERITAGE82

I think fake watch is a bit harsh for this project. He has gone through the trouble of acquiring all OEM components except the midcase so where does aftermarket play a role? If he put an aftermarket bracelet with OEM clasp on a OEM case is it still fake?

He has a valid pint about it being nearly impossible to find a decent midcase for sale and if found the prices are usually high.

Aftermarket and counterfeit are very different terms.

Aftermarket, for the case or movement, completely changes everything. Aftermarket parts to keep things going, sure, aftermarket case? Well then it is not a Rolex. Put Rolex dial in an aftermarket case, it is counterfeit. Design your own homage dial in an aftermarket case, you might have a pretty cool homage and you are not worrying about being counterfeit. So yes, an aftermarket case changes everything.

[Dan S]

Originally Posted by HERITAGE82

If he put an aftermarket bracelet with OEM clasp on a OEM case is it still fake?

Fake question. :-)

[HERITAGE82]

Originally Posted by linesiders

Aftermarket, for the case or movement, completely changes everything. Aftermarket parts to keep things going, sure, aftermarket case? Well then it is not a Rolex. Put Rolex dial in an aftermarket case, it is counterfeit. Design your own homage dial in an aftermarket case, you might have a pretty cool homage and you are not worrying about being counterfeit. So yes, an aftermarket case changes everything.

Appreciate the clarity ... The line is drawn when it comes to the case.

What if you put an aftermarket dial in a Rolex case where does that fall in your opinion?

[HERITAGE82]

Originally Posted by Dan S

Fake question. :-)

I was definitely trying to split hairs ;)

[SOG DIVER]

Have a similar challenge -but with an original 1960 Submariner 5512.
The decision area is the dial: glossy period service dials... or an original
radium dial with chapter ring and hands that continue to flake radium and gather moisture.$$$$. Then there is the European 1st class period re-print.

[TuRo]

A quandary SOG diver ^ above....

If it was me and I couldn't wait to find/stump up the $8000-$10000 (that would add about $15000 to watch of course) for gilt curved hands and 2 line c/ring swiss dial.

I'd go 1 below -( a goldilocks option if you will) :

1) any matte 4 line dial that are about £2-3k or so (it's handsome, vintage, and will be resaleable for more than you bought it for if you find the bart/flat/whatever gilt unicorn in years to come.
2) service wg gloss about £1000 or so (I sold my spare one for £900 a year ago took ages to sell.mind)
but NOT I'm afraid :
3) your re print option though.....I really do suspect you'd regret it and it has next to no residual value too, if that matters ...

[Pure_class]

Originally Posted by linesiders

Aftermarket, for the case or movement, completely changes everything. Aftermarket parts to keep things going, sure, aftermarket case? Well then it is not a Rolex. Put Rolex dial in an aftermarket case, it is counterfeit. Design your own homage dial in an aftermarket case, you might have a pretty cool homage and you are not worrying about being counterfeit. So yes, an aftermarket case changes everything.

I think I will sell the case I have and may just move on from the project. These projects are not cheap. I could tech buy a 16570 for the cost that the project is getting to...

[joli160]

A fake case belongs in the bin

[Drand]

Never been a fan of purchasing fakes (no offense) but with what you've said, you've really put a lot of time and energy into this and of course money too. I applaud your resilience and this one time will say keep up at it.

[hutch300]

I think you learned you want a 5513. There are deals out there - chase those while you also search for a case. You might find there are a few good parts guys on Instagram or the VRF. I would not sell the parts until you get a 5513 but I'd toss that case in the bin like said above. I get it with pips or similar things but not for a case.

[Arnozerosix]

Originally Posted by TuRo

.... The caseback be another circa £500 if you take any year (pre72) or a later one/service case back.

....

i might be wrong, but I doubt you'll find a 5513 original caseback for 500£....never seen any at this price in the recent years...

[Pure_class]

Originally Posted by Arnozerosix

i might be wrong, but I doubt you'll find a 5513 original caseback for 500£....never seen any at this price in the recent years...

Yeah, most case backs in good shape are asking $2500-$3000. Midcase I would imagine is probably close to double depending on condition. Other issue is finding a case that isn't pitted or dinged to where it negatively effects water resistance.

[Arnozerosix]

Originally Posted by Pure_class

Yeah, most case backs in good shape are asking $2500-$3000. Midcase I would imagine is probably close to double depending on condition. Other issue is finding a case that isn't pitted or dinged to where it negatively effects water resistance.

i think for a bit above 2k you ll get a sealed one....

[linesiders]

Originally Posted by HERITAGE82

Appreciate the clarity ... The line is drawn when it comes to the case.

What if you put an aftermarket dial in a Rolex case where does that fall in your opinion?

The only way I would put an aftermarket dial in was if I planned to source an original dial, even then, I would just get a cheap service dial to wear UNTIL propper dial comes along.

Originally Posted by SOG DIVER

Have a similar challenge -but with an original 1960 Submariner 5512.
The decision area is the dial: glossy period service dials... or an original
radium dial with chapter ring and hands that continue to flake radium and gather moisture.$$$$. Then there is the European 1st class period re-print.

Tough call, split the baby? find a ragged period dial and have European Super Dial (not reprint) relaquer? Good question.

Originally Posted by Pure_class

I think I will sell the case I have and may just move on from the project. These projects are not cheap. I could tech buy a 16570 for the cost that the project is getting to...

Get they 16570 , it won't bother you, when something comes along that makes everything align, flip the 16570

Don't be afraid of projects, some of my best finds are projects ; ) but be clear thinking of them and know what you are getting into.