Which Daytona reference is this?

[Bensrolex]

I have trouble seeing through the (closed) shop window? Can you more knowledgeable folks tell?


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[senninha]

16520 zenith daytona, anywhere from late 90s to 2003 i believe (as it looks like it has a polished bracelet and it doesn’t have the ‘inverted 6’)

[Daytonaman799]

16519 looks like white gold zenith with strap.has the 16520 dial though.

[karleone]

Originally Posted by senninha

16520 zenith daytona, anywhere from late 90s to 2003 i believe (as it looks like it has a polished bracelet and it doesn’t have the ‘inverted 6’)

This is a 16519 not a 16520. It’s in white gold on strap.
The 16520 has been out there from 98 to 2000 not sure about the 16519 though.

[Parapraxis]

I agree with 16519.
Minutes at 9oclock tells you it's a zenith movement, hence 5 digit reference 165**
Strap tells you it's white gold, hence ***19.

However the subdials on the dial should be grey/white, not black. So I do wonder if the dial was swapped, this is a Frankenstein watch or just a straight up fake.

[Bensrolex]

You folks are amazing...the shopkeeper eventually returned and let me in to see the watch. It is indeed a 2000 16519, single owner, with original box and papers from a German AD. Looked like rarely worn to me, very minor hairline marks, etc. Dealer said they tested it for 10 days, running perfectly. They are a well-established fine vintage watch dealer in a posh part of town, so I doubt the watch is faked in any way; is it considered possible that the black dial was an owner election at purchase? The dealer seemed to feel that it was rare to have a full set of the Zenith movement model in such nice condition. I know white gold is out of favor at the moment relative to steel, but I AM tempted. Unfortunately my circumstances dictate that any purchase must have a reasonable case to be made re: holding value over time. Anybody feel like putting a "that would be sorely tempting" number on the watch?

[ratty]

Originally Posted by Parapraxis

I agree with 16519.

……

However the subdials on the dial should be grey/white, not black. So I do wonder if the dial was swapped, this is a Frankenstein watch or just a straight up fake.

Or maybe it was just specifically ordered with this dial from new!

[HMHM]

Originally Posted by Bensrolex

You folks are amazing...the shopkeeper eventually returned and let me in to see the watch. It is indeed a 2000 16519, single owner, with original box and papers from a German AD. Looked like rarely worn to me, very minor hairline marks, etc. Dealer said they tested it for 10 days, running perfectly. They are a well-established fine vintage watch dealer in a posh part of town, so I doubt the watch is faked in any way; is it considered possible that the black dial was an owner election at purchase? The dealer seemed to feel that it was rare to have a full set of the Zenith movement model in such nice condition. I know white gold is out of favor at the moment relative to steel, but I AM tempted. Unfortunately my circumstances dictate that any purchase must have a reasonable case to be made re: holding value over time. Anybody feel like putting a "that would be sorely tempting" number on the watch?

I'm sorry to break the bubble, but doesn't matter what the dealer says regarding "rarity" etc, the watch is a FRANKENSTEIN! Unless the watch comes with the original dial (as attached below), no amount of money paid for that watch would be worth any form of "investment", simply because no one is going to pay top dollar for a made-up watch. Unless you are willing to take huge losses when you sell, it is simply not going to work.

Anybody buying that watch would ask for a massive discount, then use the savings to get the actual dial associated with the watch. The provenance of the watch is now also in doubt - if the dial was swapped, what else was? How much of the watch is original?

[Bensrolex]

Originally Posted by HMHM

I'm sorry to break the bubble, but doesn't matter what the dealer says regarding "rarity" etc, the watch is a FRANKENSTEIN! Unless the watch comes with the original dial (as attached below), no amount of money paid for that watch would be worth any form of "investment", simply because no one is going to pay top dollar for a made-up watch. Unless you are willing to take huge losses when you sell, it is simply not going to work.

Anybody buying that watch would ask for a massive discount, then use the savings to get the actual dial associated with the watch. The provenance of the watch is now also in doubt - if the dial was swapped, what else was? How much of the watch is original?

Attachment 1352531

I appreciate the feedback! Am I understanding correctly that your view is that it is either impossible or highly unlikely that the owner elected to have a non-arabic dial option at original purchase?

[HMHM]

Originally Posted by Bensrolex

I appreciate the feedback! Am I understanding correctly that your view is that it is either impossible or highly unlikely that the owner elected to have a non-arabic dial option at original purchase?

The owner might have! But the watch in question should come with the original 519 dial. Meaning if you buy this watch, the deal should come with BOTH dials. The watch is UNLIKELY to leave the Rolex AD back in 2000 with the current dial. It may have gone to service at RSC where the owner requested the dial swap but it should have a receipt of the service stating the dial swap and the price paid for it..

[ratty]

The last time I bought a 116519 I specifically ordered it from new with a 116520 dial. It was not changed by the AD or RSC. It did not come with two dials and the dial / case combo was noted on the original paperwork. Just because you have not seen this before doesn’t mean it has not happened before!

I personally think this watch looks better with the 16520 dial instead of the 16519 dial posted above.

The ‘Swiss Made’ 16520 dial in the photo would also be period correct if this is a year 2000 watch unlike some of the earlier dials fitted to these watches.

[HMHM]

Originally Posted by ratty

The last time I bought a 116519 I specifically ordered it from new with a 116520 dial. It was not changed by the AD or RSC. It did not come with two dials and the dial / case combo was noted on the original paperwork. Just because you have not seen this before doesn’t mean it has not happened before!

I personally think this watch looks better with the 16520 dial instead of the 16519 dial posted above.

That’s great! I think many people, including myself would like to see a one-off 116519 with a unique 116520 dial with the correct paperwork! That would be a great unique piece from Rolex that’s been unheard off in recent times.

[Seo]

Question to the experts. Is that bezel correct for that watch? I thought that marking style only came recently?

[Benzsiam]

Originally Posted by hmhm

i'm sorry to break the bubble, but doesn't matter what the dealer says regarding "rarity" etc, the watch is a frankenstein! Unless the watch comes with the original dial (as attached below), no amount of money paid for that watch would be worth any form of "investment", simply because no one is going to pay top dollar for a made-up watch. Unless you are willing to take huge losses when you sell, it is simply not going to work.

Anybody buying that watch would ask for a massive discount, then use the savings to get the actual dial associated with the watch. The provenance of the watch is now also in doubt - if the dial was swapped, what else was? How much of the watch is original?

Attachment 1352531

+1

[inadeje]

Originally Posted by Bensrolex

I have trouble seeing through the (closed) shop window? Can you more knowledgeable folks tell?


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Even if you get this with a steep discount you’ll be unable to service the watch with Rolex unless you’re willing to buy a new dial (which they may not have). Rolex won’t service watches with non OEM (others call Frankenstein) parts installed.

Others have suggested that Rolex possibly manufactured this piece under special request with a 16520 dial instead of the OEM arabica dial. I disagree, Rolex wouldn’t typically do that.

[TheVTCGuy]

Originally Posted by inadeje

Even if you get this with a steep discount you’ll be unable to service the watch with Rolex unless you’re willing to buy a new dial (which they may not have). Rolex won’t service watches with non OEM (others call Frankenstein) parts installed.

Others have suggested that Rolex possibly manufactured this piece under special request with a 16520 dial instead of the OEM arabica dial. I disagree, Rolex wouldn’t typically do that.

This, have to agree. While one-owner and running for 10 days may all be well and true, that watch could probably use a service now or for sure will some day soon. We can (and have) debated franken-watches ad nauseam, I would not want a watch that is unserviceable.

[EEpro]

Just pass on it. Not worth the headache