Grey Dealers?

[dukejjz]

This might be obvious to some, but i was wondering about grey dealers. If Rolex only sells their watches to ADs, where do the grey dealers get them from??

[Idle Swede]

Hhhhmmmm.

[R1@160@alltimes]

...from grey market

[Wolfgang427]

Originally Posted by dukejjz

This might be obvious to some, but i was wondering about grey dealers. If Rolex only sells their watches to ADs, where do the grey dealers get them from??

From those very same ADs.

[gjgman]

The same thing happens in the Electronic business...Every see high end stuff like Pioneer Elite available well below list on the "gray market".

[sexner]

I would hazard a guess and say that they could either get them from Authorized Dealers or private sales much the same as any retail product.

[Tools]

Grey Market is a defined term that is commonly misused..

The Grey Market is brand new product, imported into a country, bypassing the authorized franchise or trademark holder.. In other words, cutting out Rolex USA, in the case of the US.

Internet watches and Forum sales are not always Grey Market... they are just watches bought at wholesale from AD's dumping product... essentially re-selling.... or used (pre-owned?)

Much of the true Grey Market watches in the US come from Hong Kong (or other parts of Asia).. Rolex SA ships the watches to the Hong Kong distributor..supposedly for a specific Dealer, but the Distributor re-ships the product to their import offices in the US, who sells them to the various Dealers. Some Large Dealers, of course, do their own re-directing to keep sales figures up and a steady stream of Rolex watches coming in to them.

[dukejjz]

Originally Posted by Tools

Grey Market is a defined term that is commonly misused..

The Grey Market is brand new product, imported into a country, bypassing the authorized franchise or trademark holder.. In other words, cutting out Rolex USA, in the case of the US.

Internet watches and Forum sales are not always Grey Market... they are just watches bought at wholesale from AD's dumping product... essentially re-selling.... or used (pre-owned?)

Much of the true Grey Market watches in the US come from Hong Kong (or other parts of Asia).. Rolex SA ships the watches to the Hong Kong distributor..supposedly for a specific Dealer, but the Distributor re-ships the product to their import offices in the US, who sells them to the various Dealers. Some Large Dealers, of course, do their own re-directing to keep sales figures up and a steady stream of Rolex watches coming in to them.

Exactly the answer I was looking for! Thanks :)

[pigcorn]

But how does the AD make a profit selling to the grey market dealers? So if they sell a $8,000 USD Rolex to a Grey Market dealer for $7,250 then why doesn't the AD just sell the same watch at the same price to a customer of the AD? How are they cutting out Rolex SA? Doesn't Rolex wonder why that watch is no longer at the AD without the book\card being stamped?

[pigcorn]

Did some research and answered a least part of my own question which is AD's get watches at significant discounts from Rolex which gives them room to play the grey market game while giving the grey market enough room to attract a buyer with a good price while still making money.

That means that the $35k YMII that Furman is selling for 26k was purchased by an AD most likely in the low 20ks...wow that is some mark up

[greekbum]

The grey dealer provides liquidity to the AD. An AD has to buy x dollar amount of watches a year to stay an AD. He has to unload some of those to recoup some of his money if he cant move them all. He might even loose money on some undesirable ones that he has to buy in order to get the desirable ones.Markup is around 40-45% I hear.

[MortgageGuy]

And here all this time I just thought the grey dealers just bought them all from ebay

[sakuraba]

Originally Posted by Tools

Much of the true Grey Market watches in the US come from Hong Kong (or other parts of Asia).. Rolex SA ships the watches to the Hong Kong distributor..supposedly for a specific Dealer, but the Distributor re-ships the product to their import offices in the US, who sells them to the various Dealers.

Interesting, Larry.

I bought my Air King and Explorer II from Grey Market dealers, and both came with HK papers and chinese character manuals.

[Brushpup]

Originally Posted by Tools

Grey Market is a defined term that is commonly misused..

The Grey Market is brand new product, imported into a country, bypassing the authorized franchise or trademark holder.. In other words, cutting out Rolex USA, in the case of the US.

Internet watches and Forum sales are not always Grey Market... they are just watches bought at wholesale from AD's dumping product... essentially re-selling.... or used (pre-owned?)

Much of the true Grey Market watches in the US come from Hong Kong (or other parts of Asia).. Rolex SA ships the watches to the Hong Kong distributor..supposedly for a specific Dealer, but the Distributor re-ships the product to their import offices in the US, who sells them to the various Dealers. Some Large Dealers, of course, do their own re-directing to keep sales figures up and a steady stream of Rolex watches coming in to them.

The best description I ever heard regarding this.

[Carlos98326194]

I also bought my SS Sub from a grey market in hong kong that was from a certain Taiwan AD. They gave me a 21% discount compared to 8% that was given by AD here in Hong Kong.

[jinluke]

Originally Posted by Carlos98326194

I also bought my SS Sub from a grey market in hong kong that was from a certain Taiwan AD. They gave me a 21% discount compared to 8% that was given by AD here in Hong Kong.

Hi Carlos,

I'm also in HK. Which dealer did you get your 21% off Rolex from? Thanks a lot!!

Luke

[sandytn]

I have a related question. I am not sure as to how sellers like David and TempoKing on TRF would get classified as.

When we buy a watch from them and they send us the brand new watch, all boxes and with warranty papers stamped by US AD but the name field blank, where we can fill our own name. How does warranty work on these watches.

[Tools]

Originally Posted by sandytn

I have a related question. I am not sure as to how sellers like David and TempoKing on TRF would get classified as.

When we buy a watch from them and they send us the brand new watch, all boxes and with warranty papers stamped by US AD but the name field blank, where we can fill our own name. How does warranty work on these watches.

The only legal answer here is that your warranty is not valid.. Read the warranty paper... it tells you what is and what is not valid..

[ducatidoc]

In the same vein, I suppose it goes without saying that the more active GM dealers have to have a ready supply of capital on hand at any given time. If they establish 1 or several dealer "preferred" relationships, it seems to me the ADs can play the same game with them ie, they must buy X # of watches or take less desirable pieces in order to get the highly desirable gem they really want ?

[yaga]

Originally Posted by sandytn

I have a related question. I am not sure as to how sellers like David and TempoKing on TRF would get classified as.

When we buy a watch from them and they send us the brand new watch, all boxes and with warranty papers stamped by US AD but the name field blank, where we can fill our own name. How does warranty work on these watches.

Along these lines, I am trying to figure out whether to buy my first Rolex from an AD, a grey dealer, or used from TRF from a reputable seller. It seems most (or many) longtime members of these forums have no problem buying used form a TRF member, which I know carries no warranty, and in fact many people recommend it to save money. However, it sounds like many people have a problem with people buying from a grey dealer, but isn't this really the same thing?

One reason I have been afraid to buy grey (or used) and am currently leaning toward buying from an AD is because I am afraid of receiving a fake Rolex (due to my naivety about the fine details of Rolex's), knowing that there are some fakes that look like the real deal. Is this fear unfounded? Is it possible to just call Rolex with a serial number or something to verify that a watch is genuine?

If verifying the genuineness of a watch is not an issue, is the only consideration then the warranty? Essentially, people who buy grey or used are banking on the savings covering the cost of any (potential) necessary repairs? Thanks.

[Mini2]

Originally Posted by Tools

The only legal answer here is that your warranty is not valid.. Read the warranty paper... it tells you what is and what is not valid..

I dont understand why warranty isnot valid because it was made in the same place as the one you buy from your rolex AD.

This reminds me of when people use to import cars into teh uk and dealers were like, cant service that, its an import, but where do you think your bloody toyota's on your forecourt come from.....space

[Pep04]

Originally Posted by greekbum

The grey dealer provides liquidity to the AD. An AD has to buy x dollar amount of watches a year to stay an AD. He has to unload some of those to recoup some of his money if he cant move them all. He might even loose money on some undesirable ones that he has to buy in order to get the desirable ones.Markup is around 40-45% I hear.

It is more like 50%-55% markup. So, if ABC authorized dealer needs to buy 20 watches per month, so he is able to pick some of the ones he wants. But, he only sells say 12 on average. He dumps the 8 on you at maybe cost or $1,500 over cost for a sports model . The grey dealer will negotiate 2 very desireable ones every month so HE too can sell the "HOT" ones. Now the grey dealer bought a a $10,000 for some $7,000. he in turn sells it for $8,000 and turns a $1,000 profit.


As for warranty... I bought my Pam 244 from a grey market dealer and went to an AD to have it sent to NY for service. Paid $35 for shipping and nothing else!!! No hassles no problems!!!!:d ude:

[snow_rocks]

Originally Posted by dukejjz

where do the grey dealers get them from??

the black market

[snowbird]

I would guess that at some level Rolex is aware of the gray market and could choose to do more to stop it, but doesn't really want to as this way they sell more watches while still officially holding the line on list prices.

[accce]

This is a great thread.

[Sublover2166]

Gray market watches are essentially sold by the ADs out the back door instead of the front door. They cannot refuse shipments from Rolex so, if business is slow say due to a poor economy what do they do with ever increasing inventory? Back door sales to gray market dealers at a discount just to get em sold. So I was told.

[LA_LEC]

Originally Posted by accce

This is a great thread.

Yes, it is.
I am quite sure that most of us (myself included) have wondered about how this whole thing works.
Interesting info/theories indeed!

[accce]

So the trick is to find AD's who are in areas hit worst by the recession and see how much you can beat them up on price.

[SeaDweller50]

Very interesting indeed.

[threemonkeys]

They pull the watches out of someone's butt each time they resurrect a four year old post. That is where I am told they get their supply.