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C. Davidson · 6 August 2009, 07:22 PM

Continuing my research on what many call "the finest timepiece in the world". I'm wondering, what Swiss watch companies are there that are comparable to a Patek Philippe? A Lange & Sohne? F. P. Journe? Vacheron? Is there really any competion? What other brand maintains value across the board like Patek? Is there a question I should be asking that Im not?

Any and all comments are greatly appreciated.

drtooth73 · 6 August 2009, 09:29 PM

Value? Rolex maintains value,
and of course Panerai. 3 year old Panerai can be sold way over original price.

drtooth73 · 6 August 2009, 09:31 PM

Prestige: I believe Vacheron salespeople think VC is Patek's counterpart.
However, it is Patek that is mostly worn by Presidents and oligarchs.

WatchSnob · 6 August 2009, 10:47 PM

I think AP (not the sports models even though I like them). Also VC compares more to AP that PP. You will see many AP dealers also selling VC

allanofcalifornia · 6 August 2009, 10:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WatchSnob

I think AP (not the sports models even though I like them). Also VC compares more to AP that PP. You will see many AP dealers also selling VC

x2!

Allan

Numismatist · 6 August 2009, 11:55 PM

Patek seems like the Holiest of Holy Grail watches to me.

allanofcalifornia · 6 August 2009, 11:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Numismatist

Patek seems like the Holiest of Holy Grail watches to me.

This is why I have to buy one!!

Allan

Numismatist · 7 August 2009, 12:01 AM

Only upon some type of large inheritance or lottery winings will I ever buy a Patek - but if that happens, I'm buying one immediately!

allanofcalifornia · 7 August 2009, 12:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Numismatist

Only upon some type of large inheritance or lottery winings will I ever buy a Patek - but if that happens, I'm buying one immediately!

Which one?

Allan

iwantagmt · 7 August 2009, 12:14 AM

I would add that some models of Breguet are comparable. I don't have knowledge of resale values. My list of competitors would look like this:

Lange
AP
VC
Breguet
FP Journe
JLC's top models (basically from the Duometre on up)

and if you are willing to be on a waiting list:

Philippe Dufour
Kari Voutilainen
Romain Gauthier

However, for me personally, brand history is VERY important. For that reason Journe, Dufour, Voutilainen, and Gauthier would not be serious considerations.

boa2 · 7 August 2009, 12:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by iwantagmt

I would add that some models of Breguet are comparable. I don't have knowledge of resale values. My list of competitors would look like this:

Lange
AP
VC
Breguet
FP Journe
JLC's top models (basically from the Duometre on up)

and if you are willing to be on a waiting list:

Philippe Dufour
Kari Voutilainen
Romain Gauthier

However, for me personally, brand history is VERY important. For that reason Journe, Dufour, Voutilainen, and Gauthier would not be serious considerations.

Definitely agree with the list of names. I do think that from a technical-only standpoint, FP Journe is ahead of Patek in pushing the envelope. Lange (which is German) and AP as well. Of course, it's very difficult to compare brand to brand, much easier to compare watch to watch. From a brand standpoint, Patek is far ahead in value of any of those listed, notwithstanding the respective watch groups to which JLC, Lange, VC & Breguet belong.

As far as resale goes, many Patek watches hold their value extremely well. The top 10 most expensive pieces ever sold were all vintage Patek Philippes. All were complicated watches...perpetuals, etc.

Numismatist · 7 August 2009, 01:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by allanofcalifornia

Which one?

Allan

Shopping with a pile of money...hmmmm.let me see...

Love moonphase complications...love platinum on them...Thrilled with repeaters...

allanofcalifornia · 7 August 2009, 01:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Numismatist

Shopping with a pile of money...hmmmm.let me see...

Love moonphase complications...love platinum on them...Thrilled with repeaters...

That looks gorgeous!! How much does that watch cost?

Allan

RW16610 · 7 August 2009, 01:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by iwantagmt

I would add that some models of Breguet are comparable. I don't have knowledge of resale values. My list of competitors would look like this:

Lange
AP
VC
Breguet
FP Journe
JLC's top models (basically from the Duometre on up)

and if you are willing to be on a waiting list:

Philippe Dufour
Kari Voutilainen
Romain Gauthier

However, for me personally, brand history is VERY important. For that reason Journe, Dufour, Voutilainen, and Gauthier would not be serious considerations.

Yep, well put. I agree with you and that list 1000%

Rolex and all the other brands do not measure up to these in terms of limited numbers and prestige. That being said they are VERY high end but those above in this post are a totally different level.

Numismatist · 7 August 2009, 01:37 AM

I believe it is their highest end watch. So I assume 6 figures, but I don't know. Maybe someone does?

When I win that lottery, I'll send you one!

train-time · 7 August 2009, 01:39 AM

Clearly many of the brands mentioned to be in the same league as Patek are very fine watches. If you read IW magazine's monthly section on major watch auctions, it quickly becomes clear that Patek is pretty much in a league of it's own. It's Patek, Patek, Patek, and an occasional other brand that seem to be bringing 6 to 7 figures all the time. IMO, I think that fact speaks volumes about a Patek. Whenever one appears on the "Antiques Roadshow" the appraiser hosting that particular event always refers to the Patek as "arguably" the finest watch ever made.

I agree, if I were to win the lottery, I would be heading to my local Patek dealer to obtain a piece of history.

allanofcalifornia · 7 August 2009, 01:43 AM

So, what pre-owned Patek model you recommend for around $15,000? What is the best one can hope to obtain in that price range?

Allan

boa2 · 7 August 2009, 02:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Numismatist

I believe it is their highest end watch. So I assume 6 figures, but I don't know. Maybe someone does?

When I win that lottery, I'll send you one!

Sky Moon Tourbillon...over $1 million.

I did recently meet a guy wearing this watch...yowsa!

boa2 · 7 August 2009, 02:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by allanofcalifornia

So, what pre-owned Patek model you recommend for around $15,000? What is the best one can hope to obtain in that price range?

Allan

After I first bought a pre-owned Richard Lange

...I would buy the same one Jedi owns, the 5296g. I just love the way it looks on me.

The non-sector dial 5296g is very nice as well:

RW16610 · 7 August 2009, 02:14 AM

My oh my, such LOVELY watches... Just incredible.

ocwatching · 7 August 2009, 02:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by boa2

Sky Moon Tourbillon...over $1 million.

I did recently meet a guy wearing this watch...yowsa!

wow...that is a double YOWSA....

For $15k, probably if you are lucky a nice recent 5035..or one of the Calatravas...

Lange...is aspiring to be direct competition...only time will tell

boa2 · 7 August 2009, 02:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RW16610

My oh my, such LOVELY watches... Just incredible.

Not a great photo, but I took this a couple of months ago in Basel. They had to clean the drool off the window.

allanofcalifornia · 7 August 2009, 02:22 AM

What makes that one so expensive compared to this one?

Allan

ocwatching · 7 August 2009, 02:29 AM

Howard's watch is a 5074P..platinum, moon phase, perpetual calendar (vs. annual)...and minute repeater (it chimes)...quite a piece of engineering in a small case...just beautiful...and scary priced...

boa2 · 7 August 2009, 02:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by allanofcalifornia

What makes that one so expensive compared to this one?

Allan

That 5146 is "merely" an Annual Calendar. The Sky Moon Tourbillon is a Perpetual Calendar, Equation of Time, with Minute Repeater (chimes) and Tourbillon. Every high end complication all in one sandwich. And the back has a moon phase with a constellation that is hemisphere specific.

boa2 · 7 August 2009, 02:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ocwatchnewbie

Howard's watch is a 5074P..platinum, moon phase, perpetual calendar (vs. annual)...and minute repeater (it chimes)...quite a piece of engineering in a small case...just beautiful...and scary priced...

Thank you for referring to it as MY watch. I can dream, right?

ocwatching · 7 August 2009, 02:32 AM

[QUOTE=boa2;1300804]That 5146 is "merely" an Annual Calendar. The Sky Moon Tourbillon is a Perpetual Calendar, Equation of Time, with Minute Repeater (chimes) and Tourbillon. Every high end complication all in one sandwich. And the back has a moon phase with a constellation that is hemisphere specific.
QUOTE]

Howard...someone has been studying the "exceptional" watch section...

hence..the $1+ Mil price tag...simply amazing...

Starwalker · 7 August 2009, 02:57 AM

I would add harry winston to the list too amazing marvels anyone look at the opus9?

RW16610 · 7 August 2009, 03:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by boa2

Not a great photo, but I took this a couple of months ago in Basel. They had to clean the drool off the window.

Oh man I bet! Wow, those are stunning and LOVE that display

Quote:

Originally Posted by ocwatchnewbie

Howard's watch is a 5074P..platinum, moon phase, perpetual calendar (vs. annual)...and minute repeater (it chimes)...quite a piece of engineering in a small case...just beautiful...and scary priced...

Just fantastic how they managed to get all of that in such a compact package!!!!!!!!!!! Just mind blowing

drtooth73 · 7 August 2009, 03:45 AM

Allan: for $15k : new Aquanaut, almost new base Nautilus, almost new Calatrava.

6 August 2009, 07:22 PM	#1
C. Davidson "TRF" Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Real Name: Chris Location: WXSW Watch: GMT (116710) Posts: 2,723	Who are Patek's main competition? Continuing my research on what many call "the finest timepiece in the world". I'm wondering, what Swiss watch companies are there that are comparable to a Patek Philippe? A Lange & Sohne? F. P. Journe? Vacheron? Is there really any competion? What other brand maintains value across the board like Patek? Is there a question I should be asking that Im not? Any and all comments are greatly appreciated. __________________ -Cheers, Chris #15,634 "The heart of the discerning acquires knowledge; the ears of the wise seek it out."

6 August 2009, 11:55 PM	#6
Numismatist "TRF" Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Real Name: Chris Location: Camden ME & STT Watch: 116600 Posts: 6,350	Patek seems like the Holiest of Holy Grail watches to me. __________________ Rolex 116600 Sea-dweller Montblanc Solitaire Doué Black & White Legrand FP Montblanc Solitaire Doué Black & White RB Montblanc Meisterstück Diamond Mozart BP Montblanc Meisterstück Mozart BP

7 August 2009, 12:01 AM	#8
Numismatist "TRF" Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Real Name: Chris Location: Camden ME & STT Watch: 116600 Posts: 6,350	Only upon some type of large inheritance or lottery winings will I ever buy a Patek - but if that happens, I'm buying one immediately! __________________ Rolex 116600 Sea-dweller Montblanc Solitaire Doué Black & White Legrand FP Montblanc Solitaire Doué Black & White RB Montblanc Meisterstück Diamond Mozart BP Montblanc Meisterstück Mozart BP

7 August 2009, 01:37 AM	#15
Numismatist "TRF" Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Real Name: Chris Location: Camden ME & STT Watch: 116600 Posts: 6,350	I believe it is their highest end watch. So I assume 6 figures, but I don't know. Maybe someone does? When I win that lottery, I'll send you one! __________________ Rolex 116600 Sea-dweller Montblanc Solitaire Doué Black & White Legrand FP Montblanc Solitaire Doué Black & White RB Montblanc Meisterstück Diamond Mozart BP Montblanc Meisterstück Mozart BP

7 August 2009, 02:29 AM	#24
ocwatching "TRF" Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Real Name: Phil Location: CA Posts: 5,374	Howard's watch is a 5074P..platinum, moon phase, perpetual calendar (vs. annual)...and minute repeater (it chimes)...quite a piece of engineering in a small case...just beautiful...and scary priced... __________________ too much into watches...

6 August 2009, 09:29 PM	#2
drtooth73 Banned Join Date: Feb 2009 Real Name: W. Stutman Location: Motor City Watch: TT GMT IIC Posts: 2,223	Value? Rolex maintains value, and of course Panerai. 3 year old Panerai can be sold way over original price.

6 August 2009, 09:31 PM	#3
drtooth73 Banned Join Date: Feb 2009 Real Name: W. Stutman Location: Motor City Watch: TT GMT IIC Posts: 2,223	Prestige: I believe Vacheron salespeople think VC is Patek's counterpart. However, it is Patek that is mostly worn by Presidents and oligarchs.

6 August 2009, 10:47 PM	#4
WatchSnob Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: US Posts: 460	I think AP (not the sports models even though I like them). Also VC compares more to AP that PP. You will see many AP dealers also selling VC

7 August 2009, 12:14 AM	#10
iwantagmt "TRF" Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Real Name: Brandon Location: Indy: GO COLTS!!! Watch: Omega Seamaster PO Posts: 337	I would add that some models of Breguet are comparable. I don't have knowledge of resale values. My list of competitors would look like this: Lange AP VC Breguet FP Journe JLC's top models (basically from the Duometre on up) and if you are willing to be on a waiting list: Philippe Dufour Kari Voutilainen Romain Gauthier However, for me personally, brand history is VERY important. For that reason Journe, Dufour, Voutilainen, and Gauthier would not be serious considerations.

7 August 2009, 01:39 AM	#16
train-time 2024 SubLV41 Pledge Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Real Name: Plankton Location: US Watch: less Posts: 4,149	Clearly many of the brands mentioned to be in the same league as Patek are very fine watches. If you read IW magazine's monthly section on major watch auctions, it quickly becomes clear that Patek is pretty much in a league of it's own. It's Patek, Patek, Patek, and an occasional other brand that seem to be bringing 6 to 7 figures all the time. IMO, I think that fact speaks volumes about a Patek. Whenever one appears on the "Antiques Roadshow" the appraiser hosting that particular event always refers to the Patek as "arguably" the finest watch ever made. I agree, if I were to win the lottery, I would be heading to my local Patek dealer to obtain a piece of history.

7 August 2009, 01:43 AM	#17
allanofcalifornia "TRF" Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Real Name: Allan Location: California Posts: 3,210	So, what pre-owned Patek model you recommend for around $15,000? What is the best one can hope to obtain in that price range? Allan

7 August 2009, 02:14 AM	#20
RW16610 2024 SubLV41 Pledge Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Real Name: Rommel Location: Toronto Canada Watch: 116710LN Posts: 9,184	My oh my, such LOVELY watches... Just incredible.

7 August 2009, 02:22 AM	#23
allanofcalifornia "TRF" Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Real Name: Allan Location: California Posts: 3,210	What makes that one so expensive compared to this one? Allan

7 August 2009, 02:32 AM	#27
ocwatching "TRF" Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Real Name: Phil Location: CA Posts: 5,374	[QUOTE=boa2;1300804]That 5146 is "merely" an Annual Calendar. The Sky Moon Tourbillon is a Perpetual Calendar, Equation of Time, with Minute Repeater (chimes) and Tourbillon. Every high end complication all in one sandwich. And the back has a moon phase with a constellation that is hemisphere specific. QUOTE] Howard...someone has been studying the "exceptional" watch section... hence..the $1+ Mil price tag...simply amazing... __________________ too much into watches...

7 August 2009, 02:57 AM	#28
Starwalker "TRF" Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: aroundtheworld Watch: SS Daytona - BLACK Posts: 2,261	I would add harry winston to the list too amazing marvels anyone look at the opus9? __________________ 116520 Black - 116500 White - 116713LN - 116613LB - Panerai 389 - Chopard Mille Miglia GMT Chronograph - Chopard LUC Sport 2000 - Moser Pioneer Centre Seconds

7 August 2009, 03:45 AM	#30
drtooth73 Banned Join Date: Feb 2009 Real Name: W. Stutman Location: Motor City Watch: TT GMT IIC Posts: 2,223	Allan: for $15k : new Aquanaut, almost new base Nautilus, almost new Calatrava.

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