box and papers, important or not?

[yoda888]

I've been searching for a 5-digit Kermit. There seems to be quite a range of pricing for this watch, and a premium if it includes box and papers.

Am I crazy? How important is the box/papers? For whatever reason I'm trying to get a "complete" watch kit, even though once I get it, it comes out of the box and the box will end up taking space somewhere in my house. I have no plans to sell the watch once I acquire it - but hey, plans can change as well.

How much do you reck'on box and papers are worth? By my estimate it seems to be around a couple of grand?

[karleone]

The 16610LV is the only watch I would never buy without papers. The reason is that only the papers can prove it’s an actual 16610LV and not a modded 16610LN with LV parts

[996marty]

If you buy without papers you are going to make a saving some people on here would rather buy as a complete set but that comes at a price. I suppose your budget obviously comes into it. If you want to make a saving buy from a trusted seller we have quite a few on here.
I bought my GMT without papers and It doesn’t matter to me because it’s a watch that’s going to be around forever.

[Ketler]

A Box and papers watch will always carry a premium.
How much of a premium depends on the model and year of the piece.
There are those who will not buy a watch without B & P…
There are those who think spending extra for B & P is a waste of money…
Which is best…???
The debate has gone on for decades…
No wrong answer…To each his own…!!!
Enjoy the hobby in whichever way makes you smile…!!!

[Joearch]

Originally Posted by karleone

The 16610LV is the only watch I would never buy without papers. The reason is that only the papers can prove it’s an actual 16610LV and not a modded 16610LN with LV parts

X2 on this watch in particular!

[Harry-57]

Generally, it comes down you. If box and papers are important to you, they are important. If not, they aren't.

There are always exceptions and IMO this is one of them, provided that the papers are genuine:

Originally Posted by karleone

only the papers can prove it’s an actual 16610LV and not a modded 16610LN with LV parts

Which begs the question, how important is it that you get a genuine 16610LV if the modded LN has been done to a good standard? You won't be able to tell the difference and they are essentially the same watch. If this is important to you, it's important. If it isn't, it's not. If you intend to get it RSC serviced it's definitely important.

[travisb]

I would only get a complete set if I was in the market for the original LV. There's plenty out there and well worth the extra money on this particular reference.

[joli160]

Originally Posted by Joearch

X2 on this watch in particular!

Not for LV’s sold in EU, these don’t mention bezel color on papers.

Other than that full set only for me, always

[padi56]

Originally Posted by karleone

The 16610LV is the only watch I would never buy without papers. The reason is that only the papers can prove it’s an actual 16610LV and not a modded 16610LN with LV parts

Have to agree many normal 16610LN subs have been doctored into 16610LV but thats the only one the so called original papers would be important for me or service paper from a RSC.

[brandrea]

Originally Posted by travisb

I would only get a complete set if I was in the market for the original LV. There's plenty out there and well worth the extra money on this particular reference.

Same

[GreatScott]

Box and papers bro

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[Normunds]

If I were in market for LV then yeah, b&p. Otherwise- no, papers doesn’t authenticate watch.

[georgew]

Box and papers for me - and as others stated, especially for a true LV (which I have). If, for some reason, I wanted a "beater" tool watch, then maybe no B & P.

[enjoythemusic]

Yes, like others prefer the B&P, BUT...

If you are reeeeeally sure it is 100% stock then you could always buy a box, and with the initial savings difference have the timepiece serviced by RSC as its way you get 'papers' plus a fresh service and two-year warranty too.

[thesharkfactor]

Only seems matter when you try to sell. For a 16610LV though, I would not buy without (unless it was at LN with no B&P money)..

[Marcjvr]

The box is absolutely unimportant. It’s literally just a box

[Rolex1982]

If you plan to keep the watch and wear it, it’s not important. If you want to resell it after a period i would go with box and papers.

[thenewrick]

For vintage collecting it does matter. If you just want to wear the watch and don’t care about it’s value much don’t get box and papers. Easy peezy

[1William]

Do yourself a favor and buy a good example of the watch with the box and papers that provide providence. Too many issues can arise without it and if you are the kind of guy that represents a watch to be something it is not, then buy a modified 16610LN. This question is really about money and for this reference it is worth it.

[4 Aussies]

No box, no papers, me no buy!!

[Swearengen]

I think the one I had said 16610LV on one of the tags, the papers didn't mention anything LV specific. But it was a few years ago

Originally Posted by joli160

Not for LV’s sold in EU, these don’t mention bezel color on papers.

Other than that full set only for me, always

[ExplorerI]

If you ever go to sell it in the future you’re probably gonna wish you had at least the papers.

[Driver8]

I don’t think there’s any great mystery here - the more complete a thing is, the more it’s worth, and/or the more it costs to buy.

Obviously the more original and complete a set is, the less likely it will be to modded or fake. Of course, anything that’s made by the hand of man can also be faked by the hand of man, so nothing is a 100% guarantee, but the odds diminish rapidly the more complete and original a set is.

Outside of authenticity, then the importance of B&P’s comes down to personal preference. Some will say “you don’t wear the box”, while others will just like having a full set.

Personal I fall into the latter camp as I always prefer a full set. Even when I buy from an AD I ask for the bezel protector, the coffin, etc. Yes it all goes in a drawer, but I just like knowing it’s all absolutely complete.

[yoda888]

Wow, didn't think about "fake" LVs, but I guess one could get the maxi dial, and the bezel and voila!

Okay how about this, no box/papers, but you send it to rolex to get serviced right away. They service it without any issues and send you that service certificate afterwards. Does this change the "papers" story? Doesn't need the original papers, just rolex papers of some sort?

[East of Eden]

I don't care about box and papers, just something else to lose.

[monsieur_z]

No box+paper:
you buy cheaper, you resell cheaper later on; higher chance that it's been stolen (especially newer releases), higher chance of fake.

With box+paper:
The opposite, keeping in mind that fake boxes and fake papers can be found online, it's scary.

A trustful seller selling without papers is better than a unknown seller trying to dump a cheap full set piece.

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[Carguy87]

Originally Posted by joli160

Not for LV’s sold in EU, these don’t mention bezel color on papers.

Other than that full set only for me, always

This may be, but Rolex HQ knows via serial number which bezel it came with, so if the OP bought an LN modded to be an LV then sent it in for service at RSC down the line he’d be in for a rude awakening when they turn the lights on.

Plus for me box and papers give me some small assurance that it’s less likely the watch was ever stolen. Would hate to find out down the road that I inadvertently spent my hard earned money on someone else’s watch that was taken from them and perpetuate that cycle.

[Solo118]

Not that important to me. In fact I had a weird issue with an older Daytona I had a year or so ago that it had just been running very quickly for no reason. I took it to RSC NY since I work not too far away without any card on me.

It was under warranty, but they did not even ask me for the card. They just took it in and fixed it within a couple of weeks.

[KatGirl]

If still within warranty period, it’s important. If not, not so much.

Kat


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[ExplorerI]

Originally Posted by Carguy87

This may be, but Rolex HQ knows via serial number which bezel it came with, so if the OP bought an LN modded to be an LV then sent it in for service at RSC down the line he’d be in for a rude awakening when they turn the lights on.

Plus for me box and papers give me some small assurance that it’s less likely the watch was ever stolen. Would hate to find out down the road that I inadvertently spent my hard earned money on someone else’s watch that was taken from them and perpetuate that cycle.

Yes although plenty of stories of home invasions where the box and papers get swiped too.