Helsinki Guidance: Evening Tails (white tie) rental/purchase in Helsinki

[shedlock2000]

Hi All,

I am looking for some support/guidance for rental or purchase of evening tails in Helsinki. I will be defending my doctoral degree in December, and am required to wear evening tails. However, I live in Canada and will be travelling for the event. I recognise that I will need to travel a week earlier in order to give the tailors time to adjust the rental — and I know that there may be insufficient time for a M2M or bespoke option.

I need to either rent or purchase tails there, but many of the rental places I have seen do not offer well-fitting suits — the proportions are all wrong. So I am looking for a tailor that will have more classic fitting suits to rent with the correct rise on the pants and so forth. Not living in Helsinki, I am finding it quite difficult to locate a vendor!

Below is a photo of an off-the-peg version in Edinburgh, but the suit coat is a regular and I will need a short, as the centre of the jacket falls much too low (as does the vest). Similarly, the pants are not high-enough rise, so the thing fits very badly (yes, they would tweak it a bit, but they couldn’t alter the jacket length).

Thanks for the counsel in advance!




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[DJ TT 2002]

Well, I think the last time I wore white tie was when I was picking up a prize in Stockholm……
But I digress

I have found that it is best to get the suit locally( fittings, adjustments ,etc.) and accessorize locally( shoes, ascot/cravat, etc.) and then pack it for the travel and the event.

JMHO

T

You look good nevertheless !

[shedlock2000]

Originally Posted by DJ TT 2002

Well, I think the last time I wore white tie was when I was picking up a prize in Stockholm……
But I digress

I have found that it is best to get the suit locally( fittings, adjustments ,etc.) and accessorize locally( shoes, ascot/cravat, etc.) and then pack it for the travel and the event.

JMHO

T

You look good nevertheless !

Now you have made me curious! Do we have laureate amongst us!?

I have been toying with that, but I live in redneck Alberta; white tie here is a very different thing! I’ve reached out to a few places I trust, and they’re prohibitively expensive.


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[Old Expat Beast]

Not being an academic, I'm curious as to what defending a doctoral degree entails, why it might be necessary, and why Helsinki would be the venue for such an event.

[HHIslander]

Originally Posted by Old Expat Beast

Not being an academic, I'm curious as to what defending a doctoral degree entails, why it might be necessary, and why Helsinki would be the venue for such an event.

In order to earn a PhD, a candidate must first complete written and/or oral examinations about the subject they are studying. If they pass exams, they must complete a dissertation that consists of original research. The dissertation traditionally consists of two oral defense phases. The first phase is a proposal defense. Here, the candidate presents the committee with an outline of the research they are proposing to complete for the dissertation. This is normally the more rigorous and more intense of the two defenses because if the research proposal is approved, the candidate is pretty much guaranteed to earn a phd as long as they complete the research as outlined in the proposal. The second phase (which the OP is at) occurs when the candidate completes the research and presents it to the committee in an oral presentation. Normally, this is less intense and more causal because the candidate is steps away from no longer being a student and being “one of us.” After this stage, the committee votes and the PhD is granted. It’s just about unheard of for a candidate to get this far and not graduate. Their may be some revisions to make, but the final defense is somewhat of a formality.

The entire process of earning a PhD is overseen by a committee which consists typically of five people. The Chair is the person the candidate works most closely with and guides the process. The other members are people within the candidates department and possibly one person from the minor and maybe a faculty member from another department to monitor the process and keep everyone in line.

If the chair tells you to wear tails while jumping up and down and eating your socks, you do it and smile. Part of getting a PhD requires the frequent eating of a poo sandwich. Each school has it’s own traditions. I’ve never heard of a US school requiring tails, typically a suit or jacket with tie is enough.

I’m guessing either the school is in Helsinki, or there was a conference/retreat there that all the committee members could make.

Source: Been there, done that.

Congrats OP. I hope it goes well!

[joli160]

Thanks for the explanation

[dba]

I just went through this with my son. https://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=914376

Congratulations to you sir. What subject is your award in?

Although expensive, I would try to source something locally. I realize Alberta is huge, but surely Calgary or Edmonton must have something. Probably be better to have something in hand when you travel, rather than test the waters via telephone or email from here.

Best of luck and congratulations again, Doctor.

[Old Expat Beast]

Originally Posted by HHIslander

In order to earn a PhD, a candidate must first complete written and/or oral examinations about the subject they are studying. If they pass exams, they must complete a dissertation that consists of original research. The dissertation traditionally consists of two oral defense phases. The first phase is a proposal defense. Here, the candidate presents the committee with an outline of the research they are proposing to complete for the dissertation. This is normally the more rigorous and more intense of the two defenses because if the research proposal is approved, the candidate is pretty much guaranteed to earn a phd as long as they complete the research as outlined in the proposal. The second phase (which the OP is at) occurs when the candidate completes the research and presents it to the committee in an oral presentation. Normally, this is less intense and more causal because the candidate is steps away from no longer being a student and being “one of us.” After this stage, the committee votes and the PhD is granted. It’s just about unheard of for a candidate to get this far and not graduate. Their may be some revisions to make, but the final defense is somewhat of a formality.

The entire process of earning a PhD is overseen by a committee which consists typically of five people. The Chair is the person the candidate works most closely with and guides the process. The other members are people within the candidates department and possibly one person from the minor and maybe a faculty member from another department to monitor the process and keep everyone in line.

If the chair tells you to wear tails while jumping up and down and eating your socks, you do it and smile. Part of getting a PhD requires the frequent eating of a poo sandwich. Each school has it’s own traditions. I’ve never heard of a US school requiring tails, typically a suit or jacket with tie is enough.

I’m guessing either the school is in Helsinki, or there was a conference/retreat there that all the committee members could make.

Source: Been there, done that.

Congrats OP. I hope it goes well!

Thanks for this

[shedlock2000]

Originally Posted by dba

I just went through this with my son. https://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=914376

Congratulations to you sir. What subject is your award in?

Although expensive, I would try to source something locally. I realize Alberta is huge, but surely Calgary or Edmonton must have something. Probably be better to have something in hand when you travel, rather than test the waters via telephone or email from here.

Best of luck and congratulations again, Doctor.

Thanks, dba! I’m not quite there yet!

My PhD will be in Philosophy (I know all PhDs are doctorates in philosophy, but mine is a doctorate of philosophy in philosophy)!

There are a few places in Alberta that can make evening tails, but they are prohibitively expensive (cursory investigations have returned prices between $7 and $10,000). I do agree, however, that the number of fittings would make hacking one made here more feasible (even though Edmonton is a good 10 hours return away from Lethbridge).

I was hoping that some rental options might prevail in Helsinki, as this would be significantly more affordable. With such doctoral garb being standard in the Nordic countries, I also assumed there might be cheaper ‘off-the-peg’ options in Helsinki in ways that there are not in Alberta.

I actually read your post about your son (I think I also commented on it). Congrats to you both on a major life event!


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[shedlock2000]

Originally Posted by HHIslander

In order to earn a PhD, a candidate must first complete written and/or oral examinations about the subject they are studying. If they pass exams, they must complete a dissertation that consists of original research. The dissertation traditionally consists of two oral defense phases. The first phase is a proposal defense. Here, the candidate presents the committee with an outline of the research they are proposing to complete for the dissertation. This is normally the more rigorous and more intense of the two defenses because if the research proposal is approved, the candidate is pretty much guaranteed to earn a phd as long as they complete the research as outlined in the proposal. The second phase (which the OP is at) occurs when the candidate completes the research and presents it to the committee in an oral presentation. Normally, this is less intense and more causal because the candidate is steps away from no longer being a student and being “one of us.” After this stage, the committee votes and the PhD is granted. It’s just about unheard of for a candidate to get this far and not graduate. Their may be some revisions to make, but the final defense is somewhat of a formality.

The entire process of earning a PhD is overseen by a committee which consists typically of five people. The Chair is the person the candidate works most closely with and guides the process. The other members are people within the candidates department and possibly one person from the minor and maybe a faculty member from another department to monitor the process and keep everyone in line.

If the chair tells you to wear tails while jumping up and down and eating your socks, you do it and smile. Part of getting a PhD requires the frequent eating of a poo sandwich. Each school has it’s own traditions. I’ve never heard of a US school requiring tails, typically a suit or jacket with tie is enough.

I’m guessing either the school is in Helsinki, or there was a conference/retreat there that all the committee members could make.

Source: Been there, done that.

Congrats OP. I hope it goes well!

Thanks! I appreciate the kind thoughts! I’m not there yet, though! There’s plenty of time for everything to go south yet! Thanks as well for explaining the process

My degree will be through the University of Helsinki. Our doctoral garb (the University of Helsinki’s as well many other Nordic universities) is white tie with a somewhat unusual top hat — we wear that instead of doctoral robes and a floppy hat. It’s possible to defend in a dark suit, but it’s preferable to follow university tradition and defend in white tie. There is some talk of requiring two waistcoats (a black one and a white one), as they are switched (I believe) from black to white once one’s defence is accepted. I am not yet wholly sure about the exact procedure, as the university’s website is not as helpful as you’d imagine (or, if you’re still in academia, maybe it’s exactly as helpful as you’d imagine)!

As you mention, the defence itself is less of an evaluative component than is the thesis/dissertation, however at Helsinki it’s a very formal affair involving a university representative called the Custos (analogous to the chair), the Opponent (the person who grills you for 4 hours on your thesis; usually external to the country), and your supervisors (there are at least two and sometimes up to four depending upon subject and any potential interdisciplinary nature). As elsewhere, there’s a 15-20 minute presentation, followed by general questions and comments, followed by cross examination by the Opponent, followed by cross examination by the Custos, followed by any comments or questions from the supervisors. There are some regional differences, I believe, but the event is broadly similar (for good reasons) everywhere.


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[BLACKHORSE 6]

Congrats!

[HHIslander]

Originally Posted by shedlock2000

Thanks! I appreciate the kind thoughts! I’m not there yet, though! There’s plenty of time for everything to go south yet! Thanks as well for explaining the process

My degree will be through the University of Helsinki. Our doctoral garb (the University of Helsinki’s as well many other Nordic universities) is white tie with a somewhat unusual top hat — we wear that instead of doctoral robes and a floppy hat. It’s possible to defend in a dark suit, but it’s preferable to follow university tradition and defend in white tie. There is some talk of requiring two waistcoats (a black one and a white one), as they are switched (I believe) from black to white once one’s defence is accepted. I am not yet wholly sure about the exact procedure, as the university’s website is not as helpful as you’d imagine (or, if you’re still in academia, maybe it’s exactly as helpful as you’d imagine)!

As you mention, the defence itself is less of an evaluative component than is the thesis/dissertation, however at Helsinki it’s a very formal affair involving a university representative called the Custos (analogous to the chair), the Opponent (the person who grills you for 4 hours on your thesis; usually external to the country), and your supervisors (there are at least two and sometimes up to four depending upon subject and any potential interdisciplinary nature). As elsewhere, there’s a 15-20 minute presentation, followed by general questions and comments, followed by cross examination by the Opponent, followed by cross examination by the Custos, followed by any comments or questions from the supervisors. There are some regional differences, I believe, but the event is broadly similar (for good reasons) everywhere.


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Thanks for explaining that. It’s always interesting to see how each region handles the process a little differently.

It’s not gonna go south, think positive! They are gonna make you dance a little more, but from my experience on this side of the pond, the committee won’t schedule a defense unless they’ve read your results and they all agree you’re good to go. The only thing standing in your way is if you lose your composure. Since you are going to be representing your U at research conferences for the rest of your career and getting grilled by your peers, a very big part of the final defense is seeing how well you handle pressure. If you’ve made it this far, you’ve already proven you can do that.

If you haven’t done it, I would advise you to get in touch with any recent grads for any tips. At my U, it was an unspoken part of the process to bring some nice food and coffee. I wouldn’t have known that if I hadn’t asked around.

One of the best feelings of my life was getting the sign offs and pressing the send button on the final submission. I set a top five lifetime performance for alcohol consumption that night and had a blast (I think).

Congrats again, you’re almost there! You should be proud of yourself, a PhD is no small accomplishment.

[brandrea]

I don't understand why you can't rent tails here and bring them with you ...

I guess that why I'm not a doctor of anything

Maybe you should opt for the Canadian tuxedo.

Good luck Steve!

20230911_082615.jpg

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[shedlock2000]

Originally Posted by brandrea

I don't understand why you can't rent tails here and bring them with you ...

I guess that why I'm not a doctor of anything

Maybe you should opt for the Canadian tuxedo.

Good luck Steve!

Attachment 1390473

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So far as I have been able to determine, there’s no rental of white tie available in Alberta. There might be some in GTA or Van., but not here.

I could rent a suit, but the point is really to follow the university tradition — I could also wear battle tweed, but I’m trying to follow propriety!


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[shedlock2000]

Originally Posted by HHIslander

Thanks for explaining that. It’s always interesting to see how each region handles the process a little differently.

It’s not gonna go south, think positive! They are gonna make you dance a little more, but from my experience on this side of the pond, the committee won’t schedule a defense unless they’ve read your results and they all agree you’re good to go. The only thing standing in your way is if you lose your composure. Since you are going to be representing your U at research conferences for the rest of your career and getting grilled by your peers, a very big part of the final defense is seeing how well you handle pressure. If you’ve made it this far, you’ve already proven you can do that.

If you haven’t done it, I would advise you to get in touch with any recent grads for any tips. At my U, it was an unspoken part of the process to bring some nice food and coffee. I wouldn’t have known that if I hadn’t asked around.

One of the best feelings of my life was getting the sign offs and pressing the send button on the final submission. I set a top five lifetime performance for alcohol consumption that night and had a blast (I think).

Congrats again, you’re almost there! You should be proud of yourself, a PhD is no small accomplishment.

I haven’t given much thought to how it felt to submit the thing! It required an enormous amount of work, as I had a firm deadline to make while also teaching a full course load and driving 350 miles a day. I spent 20 hours a day for 6 months working on the thesis or teaching.

Now I’ve arrived back from a conference, and am spending 18 hours a day job hunting and moulding my CV and Application Package! I don’t feel much in the way of relief — more crippling uncertainty and foreboding about the lack of work in my area (ethics and disability).

Thank you for the kind wishes, though! Ill be sure to let you know if I make it through the defence! I might even share a photo if someone takes one! I do have a bachelors scotch, a master’s scotch, and a PhD scotch (yet to be procured) to open when I do, though (all silent stills or legacy scotch).


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[scarlet knight]

Helsinki is a great place. Visit the Rock Church, it’s underground in a rock. Also, the water comes from a glacier, tastes great ( unless global warming knocked it out). Congratulations on your degree.

[shedlock2000]

Originally Posted by scarlet knight

Helsinki is a great place. Visit the Rock Church, it’s underground in a rock. Also, the water comes from a glacier, tastes great ( unless global warming knocked it out). Congratulations on your degree.

I lived in Töölö while I did my comps., so I had some time to spend int he city. I visited the church of the rock (it wasn’t far from Töölö); it’s a stunning building! I went back more recently, but it seemed to be partially closed, I’m not sure why).


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